Returning to the Tee

[drdel]

There are a few occasions when the rules require a player returns to the Tee to replay a shot under stroke and distance.

However, other than in a competition, when the course is busy and there may be another group on the Tee, is may not be correct but might be more sensible to take a 2 shot penalty (1 for the distance and 1 as a penalty) and play a ball as near as possible to the area where the original ball was lost or entered a hazard but not closer to the hole.

What would you do under the circumstances so as not to slow play unnecessarily and disrupt other groups?

 

[atticusfinch]

Never. Speed of play is not an excuse to ignore a rule. If it disrupts other groups they need to take up another hobby. It's part of the game.

The usga experimented with a distance only rule in 1960 and it lasted a year. Too much injury to the principles. The r&a tried distance only in the early 1800...didn't work.

Addin two strokes and dropping near the exit point doesn't account for the fact that the ball has been driven out of play. No amount of strokes can do that.

 

[London mike 61]

Well, I don't play in comps and if I did then perhaps I would go back to the tee if only not to be disqualified for rule breaking. But when playing for pleasure ( which is what I do mostly ) then I would take the more sensible option of taking a two shot penalty and carry on.

Life is too short to overly worry about the letter of the rules sometimes and I think as long as you adhere to the spirit of the rules then for pleasure purposes that is enough in my opinion.

 

[atticusfinch]

One of the spirits of the game is that you cannot play a ball that is not on the course. A ball in a hazard can be dropped and maintain this principle because the hazard (and thus the ball) is on the course when lifted. The penalty stroke is an approximation of a recovery shot.

A ball OB is not on the course. You would not be allowed to play a recovery shot even if you could. There is nothing to approximate with a penalty and drop. The only remedy short of going home is to start the hole over.

If life is too short play match play. You can just concede the hole and play on. No other groups are inconvenienced, you have not breached a rule and you have maintained your pace of play and pleasure factor.

 

[Jack_bfc]

When playing friendly games we use that rule now and again. Lost balls and OOB when a provisional wasn't played we just drop and carry on.

No harm done.. No money involved.. Everyone happy..

 

[Colin L]

When playing friendly games we use that rule now and again. Lost balls and OOB when a provisional wasn't played we just drop and carry on.

No harm done.. No money involved.. Everyone happy..

I don't think anyone should take issue with that. What consenting adults do on the golf course in a friendly game which has no connection with any other group doesn't exercise me in the slightest. The sole caveat is that they know that they are outside the rules which the OP seems to do and know what they must do in a competition. It would be daft to my mind to get anal about a few friends getting out in the fresh air and enjoying their golf in the way that suits them best.

Just one point for the OP however. Even if it's just a friendly game without any competitive element, I would still play a provisional ball.

 

[atticusfinch]

Every golf match has a competitive element. Otherwise what's the point?

 

[Colin L]

A social game amongst friends may well have no competitive element - I play in such games regularly. The important thing in terms of a group's having some of its own rules is that it doesn't affect anyone else.

Perhaps we should remember the difference between our handicapping systems. I would say that whenever a round of golf is to be counted towards your handicap, it should be played strictly to the Rules. For you that means pretty well every round does it not? In which case the handicapping outcomes of these social games do affect others than just the group you are playing with. Here, we only count competition rounds and occasional supplementary rounds (played under competition conditions) and so perhaps we can be much more laid back about social games played to something less than strict rules of golf because they have no effect on others.

 

[rulefan]

If you or your pals hit a lot of balls OB why not play a provisional if there is the slightest doubt.

If pace of play is a problem why not play stableford?

 

[Martin70]

My mates and I play Stableford for practice rounds. We still play from whites for the practice and will hit a provisional if there is a very good chance of not finding a ball but if you can't find one that you thought you would then 0 for the hole and move on.

 

[atticusfinch]

A social game amongst friends may well have no competitive element - I play in such games regularly. The important thing in terms of a group's having some of its own rules is that it doesn't affect anyone else.

Perhaps we should remember the difference between our handicapping systems. I would say that whenever a round of golf is to be counted towards your handicap, it should be played strictly to the Rules. For you that means pretty well every round does it not? In which case the handicapping outcomes of these social games do affect others than just the group you are playing with. Here, we only count competition rounds and occasional supplementary rounds (played under competition conditions) and so perhaps we can be much more laid back about social games played to something less than strict rules of golf because they have no effect on others.

I find the most enjoyment beating an opponent when both of us play strict rules. Cutting a corner now and again in the name of "fun" holds no appeal to me. The measure of you and me playing golf is compromised when we do not play by the rules. Wew are hitting a ball around but we are not playing golf.

In your friendly games do you not keep score where loser buys the drinks? That's a competition with a prize. You may not play by all the rules but it is still a competition.

You are right that the usga handicap system counts nearly all rounds even those played alone. One of the criteria is that at least 13 holes be played "according to the principles" of golf. That leaves room for some "creativity" on five holes. So it is not as draconian as it seems.

My main objection to this issue is that pace of play, embarrassment and content golfers is used as justification for breaching the rules or even changing them. If people want to breach the rules they should be embarrassed about it and not look for the blessings of other golfers. If you must, then just do it. Don't ask if it is ok. (That itself is a breach of the rules. )

Just a discussion.

 

[fundy]

I find the most enjoyment beating an opponent when both of us play strict rules. Cutting a corner now and again in the name of "fun" holds no appeal to me. The measure of you and me playing golf is compromised when we do not play by the rules. Wew are hitting a ball around but we are not playing golf.

In your friendly games do you not keep score where loser buys the drinks? That's a competition with a prize. You may not play by all the rules but it is still a competition.

You are right that the usga handicap system counts nearly all rounds even those played alone. One of the criteria is that at least 13 holes be played "according to the principles" of golf. That leaves room for some "creativity" on five holes. So it is not as draconian as it seems.

My main objection to this issue is that pace of play, embarrassment and content golfers is used as justification for breaching the rules or even changing them. If people want to breach the rules they should be embarrassed about it and not look for the blessings of other golfers. If you must, then just do it. Don't ask if it is ok. (That itself is a breach of the rules. )

Just a discussion.

Alternatively you could open yourself up to the belief that different people play for different reasons and have different views on what is acceptable to them. To some there would be a strong view that you need to loosen up a bit, which no doubt would rub you up the wrong way, just as telling people they should always play by the rules will other people.

I guarantee if im not playing in a comp, match or roll up sort of scenario then I will almost certainly break one and probably more rules, usually where I feel they aid my enjoyment of what is a hobby for me. In friendly games the rules imho are far too strict and restrictive, hence why people should be free to do as they please (despite what a small majority of sticklers on this forum thinks). All imho of course

 

[Colin L]

In your friendly games do you not keep score where loser buys the drinks? That's a competition with a prize. You may not play by all the rules but it is still a competition.
.

Obviously no. Remember I said that these games were non-competitive. If we kept a score and played for who bought the beer, that would be competitive, wouldn't it? It is just 4 friends out for a companionable round of golf, none of whom is particularly interested in competing and having a winner. At the same time, I play equally regularly in our seniors' bounce games which are certainly competitive although informal. Money is involved. 25p would you believe That's less than 50 cents in your currency. It is nonetheless keenly competed for. These games are played totally within the Rules - all 18 holes, not just 13 . And then you have formal competitions as well.

I recall with great pleasure the many games I played with my late brother. Very competitive matches with nothing at stake other than a pint of beer and played to the Rules. In fact since we usually had two pints after a game, we were really just playing for which of us bought the first round ...... but it was important. It would never have occurred to either of us not to play by the Rules.

I think all I'm saying is that I play by the Rules if there is any element of competition no matter how informal or unimportant it is, but if I'm just out with these 3 friends for a non-competitive game and unexpectedly lose a ball, I'm not going to trudge back to where I last played from. And as it sounded as if the OP was talking about the same sort of uncontested game, I'm not going to be bothered by how they play.

 

[ManinBlack]

At Linden Hall in Northumberland there's a big tree & scrub filled ravine left of the first. It was causing chaos in competitions with people searching then returning to the tee so they designatedcthe whole thing as a water hazard. Now anyone can drop within 2 club lengths of the point of entry no matter what. Sensible decision, if you ask me.

 

[Colin L]

Is the 1st the hole running out to the left from the car park on the map? If so, that doesn't look like a water hazard.

 

[drdel]

I guess in my original post I was really asking if only on the occasions when its a "Stroke and distance" situation off the Tee, when playing casually, you'd take a two shot penalty (1 for the distance, and another for the relevant infringement).

I'm well aware of the moral high ground pointed out by several members and the wisdom of playing a provisional when there's a chance of the need; but, when on a 'fun' day out, we'd still try and stick with the spirit or the rules. Thus it seems the penalty should be higher than a simple 1 shot for 'nearest' drop hazard etc.

This ain't a life and death issue and was only idly thinking what others might do.

 

[atticusfinch]

Is the 1st the hole running out to the left from the car park on the map? If so, that doesn't look like a water hazard.

I assume you are thinking of dec 33-8/35.

If players can ignore the lost ball rule in the name of friendly non competitive golf, shouldn't the course designers be allowed to set it up with the same thing in mind?

 

[ManinBlack]

Is the 1st the hole running out to the left from the car park on the map? If so, that doesn't look like a water hazard.

Yes it is. Perhaps there's a tricle of water at the very bottom when it rains heavily.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Play a provisional is the correct answer. There are very few occasions that wouldn't be solved by doing this.

 

[hovis]

Me and my pals play an unusual rule when the leaves have fallen that if the ball runs off the fairway into the rough then for the sake of slow play a free drop can be taken. The belfry has soooooo many leaves blown off the fairways by the green keepers that it makes it impossible to find the ball. We call it the leaf rule and the ball has to hit the fairways before rolling into the rough