Removal of Whites during Winter months

[Wessex]

Do any of the Golf Clubs you play at remove the white markers over the Winter months? Therefore playing comps over the Yellow measured course and entering the Qualifying rounds on the computer to reflect the fact.

Do your Honours board qualifying rounds have to be played over the white course only?

Salisbury & South Wilts remove their white markers from October to March. If your club has this local Rule what months do they take the whites away?

Regards,
Peter

 

[srixon 1]

Ours stay out all winter. If it is not too wet then they are occasionally used for team competitions during the winter months. Used them last week and it made the course "longer" with there being no run on the fairways.

 

[fundy]

Ours stay out all year, we play comps all year and winter KOs are played off the whites

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They are out but normally next to yellows - don't have many comps over winter but they get moved back if there is one

 

[BTatHome]

My course moves the White markers to the same position as the yellows, but we don't play qualifiers over those months anyway. They occasionally get moved back if a comp is being run, but that's rare as it gives the back tees a good chance to recover.

Can't see why you need a local rule to cover it though, if your course is a measured off the yellows then it's forms a perfectly legitimate qualifier.

 

[duncan mackie]

As BT... points out this is nothing to do with the Rules, oe Local Rules.

Courses are required to be measured courses (as defined in the CONGU manual) in order to play Q comps and which course you use for which competition will be a matter for your conditions of competition.

In practical terms many inland courses change their playing length significantly over the year and it can make a lot of sense to use a shorter one through the winter to maintain playability for the wide membership. There's also the significant issue if tee maintenance.

Removal is also a matter of social play as much as competitions at many clubs.

Shorter doesn't mean short - and there's nothing wrong with short either! SSS deals with handicapping. We are 6400 off yellows.

More specifically

We have some dedicated winter tees (measured course) - but some holes are little changed from whites.
We take in the white markers to take those tees out of play.
We play Q comps all year.
We also have Q comp and Trophy comps off yellows I the summer months.

 

[Fyldewhite]

We move to temporary tees when the weather starts to deteriorate (early November last year), play off mats then until around late March. This shortens the course significantly making all comps non-qualifiers and just for the "fun" of being out there This isn't really a big issue for our members as we do run two qualifiers a week all summer + a weekly seniors (over 60's) comp off yellows which is also a qualifier. The course gets boggy, doesn't drain too well and it's simply not proper golf.....but still better than shopping.

 

[Wessex]

We have two measured courses, over the White or Yellow. I appreciate that not using the white tees does give them time to recover.

Perhaps the use of the wording local Rule was misplaced. What has happened is that over the years to encourage more to play they have moved some of the white markers on longer holes to the yellow teeing ground which has shortened the course by 159 yards, played off the whites in a qualifying comp but entered the match as a yellow tee match on the computer which is totally against Clause 13 in the CONGU Handbook.

The question really was, do other clubs run their winter qualification matches over the yellow tees and do those qualifiers count towards Honour Board qualification matches or must the qualifier be over the white course?

 

[Foxholer]

My old 'near London' club used to only have Yellow Tee comps during winter, which seemed quite sensible to me. Conditions meant that a comp off the white tees was like adding another 500+ yards, while moving the Whites forward was limited to 100 by Congu. Yellows was still quite a slog, but a good compromise.

An earlier still 'near London' club removed the Whites over Winter. That club didn't play any qualifying comps from November 1 to March 31! Often temp greens (with 8" 'bucket' holes) and Temp Tees as well. Temp Greens/Tees are rare there these days.

The Shire, where I play most of my golf these days isn't hugely affected by a lack of run - it's mainly carries that are important there, so simply more club in Winter. They have all Tees available including Championship, but they're only for real masochists in Winter!

 

[Wessex]

OK Lads, that's given me a lot of opinions on how others react to the winter months.

Personally I think playing qualifying comps over yellows during the Winter months, say Dec - Mar would be a more fairer test of ability. KOs could still be played off the whites. It's getting the ground staff to put them out and remove them later after the match.

One of the problems with CV being a corporate club is that pay & play visitors are allowed to play off either white or yellow as the management allows it and the white tees can get hacked up pretty badly during the warmer months. Hence removing the whites does allow the competition tees to recover during the winter months.

Encouraging more to play in comps during the Winter months, having worked hard to bring their handicap down during the warmer months, seems to have been a perennial problem and I think yellow only comps should help alleviate this. Even the yellows could be shortened up to 100 yards as long as the green keepers don't over do it.

 

[JohnnyDee]

We leave them out all year too and play monthly medals, stablefords and all KOs off them.

This can be quite tough in Winter, as on several holes the distance between whites and the yellows is not insignificant.

 

[Wessex]

We leave them out all year too and play monthly medals, stablefords and all KOs off them.

This can be quite tough in Winter, as on several holes the distance between whites and the yellows is not insignificant.

Same here Johnny. There are four tees that when moved from the white to the yellow tee reduce the length by 141 yards and we have a temporary tee that is moved 40 yards forward reducing the course overall by 181 yards which is in conflict which Clause 13 and to cap it all the comp is entered on the computer as a yellow comp even though the rest of the holes are played off of the whites.

Definitely cannot mix & match!!!

 

[rulefan]

SSS and now Course Rating is assessed in summer playing conditions. Bounce and Roll may be significantly less in winter. This in turn means that the relative position of obstacles bring them into or take them out of play.
Rather than making it a fairer test of ability, it probably skews the relationship between hardened winter players' and regular summer players' handicaps.
By all means play Qs on links, heathland, sandy, and other dry courses but forget it on claggy courses. But in any case protect the quality of the white tees. Too many come into spring looking like an exhibition piece from a WW1 battlefield.