Relief from obstuctions near hazards.

[backwoodsman]

We have a situation where we have a path (obstruction) running parallel to a lateral water hazard. There is a narrow strip of grass between path and the line of red stakes. From the red stakes, there is a steepish bank dropping down to the water.

If the ball is on the path, there are situations where the nearest point of relief is on the grass strip although one may need to be standing in the hazard to play a ball at that point. Is there any reason why that is not still the NPR?

Also, the player would normally be entitled to a club length from the NPR but there would only be a foot or so before the hazard edge. Does that make any difference?

Essentially I'm trying to find out if a player would be stuffed, by having to take a drop where his ball is just outside the hazard, but he has a really difficult stance on the slope in the hazard.

Ta.

 

[Colin L]

Your NPR cannot of course be in the water hazard, but in determining the NPR, you can be standing in it. How easy or indeed possible the stance might be is not relevant.

Say we are talking of the NPR of a right handed player being between the path and the water hazard, what's the situation for a leftie? Could it be that his NPR would helpfully be on the side of the path away from the hazard because there isn't room between it and the path? Just curious!

If relief from the path creates the kind of difficulties you describe, it might be better to mark the margin of the water hazard along the edge of the path so that a player's NPR is always going to be on the other side.

 

[duncan mackie]

Agree with what Colin wrote and would add -
1. You are entitled to the NPR; you are required to drop within 1 cl of that point ie you aren't entitled to another cl.
2. Yes, player could clearly be stuffed and better off playing from the path - remember to establish your relief options before touching you ball in such situations!

 

[backwoodsman]

Your NPR cannot of course be in the water hazard, but in determining the NPR, you can be standing in it. How easy or indeed possible the stance might be is not relevant.Ta. That's what I thought

Say we are talking of the NPR of a right handed player being between the path and the water hazard, what's the situation for a leftie? Could it be that his NPR would helpfully be on the side of the path away from the hazard because there isn't room between it and the path? Just curious!Path is on right of fairway facing hole. Water is right of path. If ball is near right edge of path, a leftie is stuffed. If close to right edge, so is a rightie, but if ball is mor towards centre, then rightie likely to get the break of NPR being on the "good" side of path.

If relief from the path creates the kind of difficulties you describe, it might be better to mark the margin of the water hazard along the edge of the path so that a player's NPR is always going to be on the other side.Exactly. Think I'm going to suggest it.

Colin you read my mind. Or vice versa

 

[rulefan]

Too many clubs don't recognise this easily solved problem.
It has two unwanted effects. It presents the player with a possibly unwarranted difficult stance but more importantly encourages rule breaking (ie cheating).

 

[Colin L]

Path is on right of fairway facing hole. Water is right of path. If ball is near right edge of path, a leftie is stuffed. If close to right edge, so is a rightie, but if ball is mor towards centre, then rightie likely to get the break of NPR being on the "good" side of path.

I'm not quite with one aspect of that. If the ball is close to the RH edge of the path, a right-handed player would first see if his NPR was to the right of the path by taking up his stance with his feet clear of the obstruction and checking where his clubhead would be. Depending on the width of the strip, he would find either that his NPR would be on the strip of grass before the water hazard margin, or that his clubhead was in the water hazard in which case he has no NPR there and then goes to the fairway side of the path to find it. Either way he has a better outcome than the left-handed player who might find that his NPR to the right of the path leaves him with a really difficult stance on the slope in the hazard.

I feel a diagram coming on, but don't have time at the moment to do one.

 

[backwoodsman]

Path is on right of fairway facing hole. Water is right of path. If ball is near right edge of path, a leftie is stuffed. If close to right edge, so is a rightie, but if ball is mor towards centre, then rightie likely to get the break of NPR being on the "good" side of path.

I'm not quite with one aspect of that. If the ball is close to the RH edge of the path, a right-handed player would first see if his NPR was to the right of the path by taking up his stance with his feet clear of the obstruction and checking where his clubhead would be. Depending on the width of the strip, he would find either that his NPR would be on the strip of grass before the water hazard margin, or that his clubhead was in the water hazard in which case he has no NPR there and then goes to the fairway side of the path to find it. Either way he has a better outcome than the left-handed player who might find that his NPR to the right of the path leaves him with a really difficult stance on the slope in the hazard.

I feel a diagram coming on, but don't have time at the moment to do one.

Sorry, sloppy explanation on my part - too early in the morning. Due to requirement of full relief (ie ball and stance) a Leftie is seriously disadvantaged unless the ball is well towards left side of path.. A rightie is generally OK because he can't get his feet of the path to the right without the NPR being in hazard - so gets the break on the good side. But the are situations where a rightie cops it if if he is playing a shot more at right angles to line of path. (Ball/NPR on verge, front foot on verge, back foot in hazard.)

I see the real problem lying in taking the 2club length relief option from the hazard. Esp for the Leftie. Can either drop on the verge with a crap stance in the hazard. Or drop on path risking a nasty bounce off a stone or something, and ending up back in square one. (Width of path is such that 2 clubs isn't likely to get a Leftie an NPR on the good side.)
Hope its a bit clearer this time. Else yes a diagram coming on

 

[Hendo007]

I see the real problem lying in taking the 2club length relief option from the hazard. Esp for the Leftie. Can either drop on the verge with a crap stance in the hazard. Or drop on path risking a nasty bounce off a stone or something, and ending up back in square one. (Width of path is such that 2 clubs isn't likely to get a Leftie an NPR on the good side.)
Hope its a bit clearer this time. Else yes a diagram coming on

Is it not only 1 club length from the NPR ?

Ignore, I re-read and see your talking about taking relief from within the hazard. I'll shurrup