Relief from burrowing animal

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robert.redmile

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Hi - need some advice....

pp on sat got stuck behind a tree in a rut that looked like it was made by a rabbit.

fair enough, he's entitled to relief.

What peeved me was that he claimed he was allowed 2 club lengths, which he took sideways, which meant the tree was no longer in his way, then dropped his ball, which now had a clear shot to the green, and he obviously then greened his shot, and escaped.

Is this ruling correct?

thanks!
 
robert.redmile said:
Hi - need some advice....

pp on sat got stuck behind a tree in a rut that looked like it was made by a rabbit.

fair enough, he's entitled to relief.

What peeved me was that he claimed he was allowed 2 club lengths, which he took sideways, which meant the tree was no longer in his way, then dropped his ball, which now had a clear shot to the green, and he obviously then greened his shot, and escaped.

Is this ruling correct?

thanks!
Click to expand...

My understanding is its NPR (nearest point of relief) no nearer the hole which means if the tree (not staked) is still in the way, tough titty!
 
He should have dropped it within one club lengths from the nearest point of relief
 
Providing he complied with the provisions of Rule 25-1 when taking relief then it is one of those situations where the Rules give you a break. Covered in the decisions

25-1b/3 Improving Line of Play When Taking Relief from Abnormal Ground Condition

Q. In certain circumstances, in complying with Rule 25-1b, it is possible for a player incidentally to improve his line of play, e.g. avoid playing over a bunker or a tree. Is this permissible?

A. Yes. If a player's ball is in one of the conditions covered by Rule 25 and if, in taking relief in accordance with the procedure laid down in Rule 25-1b, his line of play is improved, this is his good fortune.

Same applies when taking relief from an immovable obstruction under Rule 24 (Decision 24-2b/7 Relief from Obstruction Interfering with Swing Incidentally Gives Relief from Intervention on Line of Play)
 
And just for fun if he was your PP you'd be more likely to be pleased instead of peeved, so going to assume he was an FC

;)
 
Slab said:
And just for fun if he was your PP you'd be more likely to be pleased instead of peeved, so going to assume he was an FC

;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, sorry - the mate who is was playing in our "friendly" match is who i meant!!!

and what should the penalty now be, given he's taken an incorrect drop, and signed for an incorrect score?

we were playing stroke play.

and thanks!
 
robert.redmile said:
Yeah, sorry - the mate who is was playing in our "friendly" match is who i meant!!!

and what should the penalty now be, given he's taken an incorrect drop, and signed for an incorrect score?

we were playing stroke play.

and thanks!
Click to expand...

It's a friendly is it not ? Just point out the error to him so that he remembers next time
 
Rule 38. Failure to comply with Rules during friendly game not discovered until players have all gone home.

Where, following completion of drinks at the 19th hole, it is discovered that during a friendly game a player has gained an advantage by failing to comply with a Rule of golf the player shall:-

a) be required to read and learn the appropriate rule
b) buy a round of drinks for his opponents
c) endure harmless banter during play of the next round

:D
 
robert.redmile said:
Yeah, sorry - the mate who is was playing in our "friendly" match is who i meant!!!

and what should the penalty now be, given he's taken an incorrect drop, and signed for an incorrect score?

we were playing stroke play.

and thanks!
Click to expand...

If you want a serious answer, it's a 2 stroke penalty for a breach of Rule 25-1b (i). If that wasn't recorded on his card when he handed it in and the competition had not closed when it was discovered that he had incurred the penalty, he would be disqualified.

But I'd much prefer Mashie-Niblick's friendly game ruling - especially if I were in line for a free pint. :cheers:
 
MashieNiblick said:
Rule 38. Failure to comply with Rules during friendly game not discovered until players have all gone home.

Where, following completion of drinks at the 19th hole, it is discovered that during a friendly game a player has gained an advantage by failing to comply with a Rule of golf the player shall:-

a) be required to read and learn the appropriate rule
b) buy a round of drinks for his opponents
c) endure harmless banter during play of the next round

:D
Click to expand...

I hope that's not multiple choice and he has to be tasked on all 3 :smirk:
 
rosecott said:
It's astonishing how many of our Seniors are able to find so many parts of the course with ruts which "look like" they were made by rabbits.
Click to expand...
I know a guy who can smell a rabbit in the woods and then free drops on the fairway.
Some of them have meters long clubs, virtual in the bag and often used to seek the fairway.

Proud announcement :
I passed the exam of Rules Reporter last saturday. It was a wake up call. You think you know the rules, but the fact is, more than a third I got wrong! Big study year (lifetime) ahead.
 
rosecott said:
It's astonishing how many of our Seniors are able to find so many parts of the course with ruts which "look like" they were made by rabbits.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it pays to make sure that it was by Rabbits, for which free relief is available, rather than Squirrels, which does not qualify for free relief - as it's not a burrowing animal! The presence, or absence, of Rabbit droppings is my normal decider.

robert.redmile said:
Yeah, sorry - the mate who is was playing in our "friendly" match is who i meant!!!

and what should the penalty now be, given he's taken an incorrect drop, and signed for an incorrect score?

we were playing stroke play.

and thanks!
Click to expand...

He may not actually have made an illegal drop! If he was entitled to relief and the place where he dropped was within 1 Club Length of NPofR (as well as being within 2 club lengths of where the ball originally was, then his drop was actually valid - even though the position was determined wrongly!
 
Foxholer said:
He may not actually have made an illegal drop! If he was entitled to relief and the place where he dropped was within 1 Club Length of NPofR (as well as being within 2 club lengths of where the ball originally was, then his drop was actually valid - even though the position was determined wrongly!
Click to expand...

That is of course a general possibility, but not according to the OP's description:

"... he claimed he was allowed 2 club lengths, which he took . ......."
 
Did I once read on the forum that a good rule of thumb to use as a reminder (acknowledging the difference to the Rules of Golf) was that if the drop was relief (no penalty) then its one club length, if the drop is under penalty stroke then two club lengths?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
He should have dropped it within one club lengths from the nearest point of relief
Click to expand...

Just something to add to Phils point if i may , NEAREST point of relief is paramount here , its not nicest its nearest , nearest point of relief can actually put you in a worse position and its tough if it does , some people i know just cant (wont) seem to accept free relief is only from (in this case) the animal scrape if it puts u in a bush , the relief has no allowance for that .

One of the proper rules guys might explain that a bit better


EDIT AFAIK there has to be some proof that it was made by a burrowing animal or relief is not allowed ie droppings etc
John Paramore [sp] once denied Seve free relief from a hole under a tree because even tho there was a hole he could not determine what made it
 
Last edited:
Colin L said:
That is of course a general possibility, but not according to the OP's description:

"... he claimed he was allowed 2 club lengths, which he took . ......."
Click to expand...

But from where!

If the NPoR was 1.5 Club Lengths - in the same direction as the 2CLs he claimed/took - then it wouldn't have been an illegal drop, would it!

That sentence you quoted doesn't guarantee that the drop was illegal, so subject to Penalty etc, does it. But it certainly means that it was possible/likely that it was.

The only way to properly answer it is to ask 'Was the drop within 1 CL, not nearer the hole, than NPoR' If it was, then it was legal; if it wasn't, then it was illegal.'
 
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