Reductions only ....

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Beautiful day on the course, a little windy but hard greens means todays comp was reductions only. We haven't had many whilst I've been there but conditions today seem to be fooling most people and very few within buffer (only 2 below par/SSS .... personally I hacked it around and lost about 4 balls on the back nine !

Are many others getting reductions only, or is it just increased CSS in most cases?
 
Our css was +1 its normally level. An extra cut for me then. 0.4 instead of 0.3.

Only problem was listening to folk greeting about the rough. Me and the boy I was out with pottered round hitting hybrids and irons on the tighter holes and seemed to manage ok. Irons run for miles off the tee, but people dont think thats as much fun ????
 
Peculiar week. CSS down 1 to 71 on Tuesday, but up 2 to 74 on Friday - same conditions for both and pretty well the same field of competitors.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
Which is why CSS doesn't make any sense
Click to expand...

you are making the (huge) assumption that the effect of the conditions on the day, combined with the pin positions, was consistent and that it was the same field....

because we use a three hole rotating pin position system it's possible to review the scoring against the general pin positions and it's clear that some positions have a huge impact on the average hole score in certain conditions. These simply don't even out in overall scoring (at our course)
 
Reduction only in July is ridiculous. It's peak golf season, the course should be at its best, the weather is awesome. The only reason can be course condition, as in rough ( nearness to fairway, and depth of first cut, etc). Your greens committee should be embarrassed frankly. There's no excuse.
 
duncan mackie said:
you are making the (huge) assumption that the effect of the conditions on the day, combined with the pin positions, was consistent and that it was the same field....

because we use a three hole rotating pin position system it's possible to review the scoring against the general pin positions and it's clear that some positions have a huge impact on the average hole score in certain conditions. These simply don't even out in overall scoring (at our course)
Click to expand...

I'm not making any assumptions. I just think CSS is a flawed concept
 
murphthemog said:
Reduction only in July is ridiculous. It's peak golf season, the course should be at its best, the weather is awesome. The only reason can be course condition, as in rough ( nearness to fairway, and depth of first cut, etc). Your greens committee should be embarrassed frankly. There's no excuse.
Click to expand...

not all courses are able to control a number of elements - irrigation being the obvious one, with it's knock on impacts.

many courses I'm playing right now have hard fairways, sparse early rough and the balls simply run into areas that don't normally come into play at all.

add that to players who seem happier to hit the ball miles than score well, and the results are often inevitable!

I agree with you that those with full course irrigation should be immaculate! :)
 
It's not about being immaculate, but flipping heck, reduction only, in july? Wtf?

Ours is playing tough, but still within reduction. More than 3 over SSS is daft in July. Either the members need shooting, or the rough is criminal. Either way, the greens staff have got it wrong for their level of membership.
 
We don't have fairway watering and so we are at the mercy of the elements and it is hard, bouncy and fast with thick rough waiting if you go too far off line. However the greens are looking and playing superbly and so I can't understand how it can be reductions only. Some very low scores coming in recently
 
invitation pairs today so no CSS but its not been up recently apart from club champs pm round (was +1),
Course is superb greens, true, firm and receptive.
 
Over the last two or three weeks we have had two Sunday stroke play competitions from the medal tees. CSSS has been 75 and reductions only, par is 71 :o
 
HawkeyeMS said:
Exactly what is the point of CSS though, what is it supposed to achieve?
Click to expand...

it's designed to stop cat 1 golfers (and RickG) selectively playing Q comps when the conditions favour shooting a lower score than SSS in an environment that has 'weather' as a climate and can vary hugely through the season, so that they give themselves the best chance of retaining, or creating, a 'low handicap'.

generally it works very well - the differences to 'normal distribution' have to be very significant to create any change (extremely simply put 25-50 range of players scoring to their buffer zone or better is normal) and for any reasonably large field within a fair range of conditions it works well (can be seen to be working well).

it also has the spin off advantage that the occassional player who chooses to maximise his chances of winning a prize but minimise his chances of a handicap reduction can never be sure he has his sums right on the 18th green :) :) :)

However if you choose to believe such people don't exist it doesn't matter.

I don't think anyone is of the view that course, and playing conditions, can never effect a golfers ability to score - so surely the issue isn't whether such a mechanism should exist but whether it can be improved, and if so how?
 
duncan mackie said:
it's designed to stop cat 1 golfers (and RickG) selectively playing Q comps when the conditions favour shooting a lower score than SSS in an environment that has 'weather' as a climate and can vary hugely through the season, so that they give themselves the best chance of retaining, or creating, a 'low handicap'.

generally it works very well - the differences to 'normal distribution' have to be very significant to create any change (extremely simply put 25-50 range of players scoring to their buffer zone or better is normal) and for any reasonably large field within a fair range of conditions it works well (can be seen to be working well).

it also has the spin off advantage that the occassional player who chooses to maximise his chances of winning a prize but minimise his chances of a handicap reduction can never be sure he has his sums right on the 18th green :) :) :)

However if you choose to believe such people don't exist it doesn't matter.

I don't think anyone is of the view that course, and playing conditions, can never effect a golfers ability to score - so surely the issue isn't whether such a mechanism should exist but whether it can be improved, and if so how?
Click to expand...

OK, so if I give you an example of an open comp on a course where SSS is 73.

Against SSS 5 players would have got cut, 3 made the buffer and the rest went up point 1.
CSS was calculated at 74. Using CSS, 5 players got cut, 3 made the buffer and everyone else went up point 1.

What is the point of CSS?
 
AMcC said:
Over the last two or three weeks we have had two Sunday stroke play competitions from the medal tees. CSSS has been 75 and reductions only, par is 71 :o
Click to expand...

classic memory situation........

you haven't had any Sunday medals within the last 3 weeks, the last was the 23 June (but did have that result) - the scary bit was thecirca 80% NR rate!!!!!!!!!!! most being after 9 holes and those that did return scores for the 9th suggest that something specific to that hole was causing a HUGE problem - the 1st was also playing really really tough.

the previous add Medal on a Sunday also had a huge NR rate, but had an active CSS (although the Love Scroll played on the same day was also a dead duck in the water)

in fact looking more deeply at you results, and returns, you have a bigger problem than CSS - you NR rate overall is simply horrendous; and either that 9th has issues or the bar is nearby and offering free beer! :)
 
HawkeyeMS said:
OK, so if I give you an example of an open comp on a course where SSS is 73.

Against SSS 5 players would have got cut, 3 made the buffer and the rest went up point 1.
CSS was calculated at 74. Using CSS, 5 players got cut, 3 made the buffer and everyone else went up point 1.

What is the point of CSS?
Click to expand...

the 5 that had cuts had them approptiate the course conditions on the day...

next?
 
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