Red/Yellow Stakes but no Red/Yellow Line

[Bahrain_Baz]

On our course the hazards are marked out by red/yellow stakes and not red/yellow lines.
Q. Should the hazard be defined by stake to stake or the natural depression of the hazard? Sometimes the ball looks like it is nowhere near the hazard but if you go stake to stake it is. Very confusing.
Thanks.

 

[rulie]

On our course the hazards are marked out by red/yellow stakes and not red/yellow lines.
Q. Should the hazard be defined by stake to stake or the natural depression of the hazard? Sometimes the ball looks like it is nowhere near the hazard but if you go stake to stake it is. Very confusing.
Thanks.

Without a painted line, it is the stake to stake line. However, a player is not permitted to take advantage of incorrect or missing stakes. If the ball is inside the natural margins of the hazard, it is in the hazard.

 

[Bahrain_Baz]

Thanks Rulie. That's fair enough but what if the ball is clearly outside the hazard if a red line was there but going stake to stake would mean it looks like it is in? Surely that is unfair?

 

[Old Skier]

Thanks Rulie. That's fair enough but what if the ball is clearly outside the hazard if a red line was there but going stake to stake would mean it looks like it is in? Surely that is unfair?

Unfortunately if it looks like it's in, it's in. Fairness doesn't come into it.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

The discussions regarding "the natural line of the hazard" are always difficult as we have a lot of water and never line the hazards. I have known people play 2 balls - one as if in the hazard and one not and await clarification post round. One problem is we seem to loose a lot of red and yellow markers over time so some of the post to post lines are crazy.

The other one that always causes a problem is if a water hazard gets too full and overlaps the posts. Again great debate about whether it's in the hazard or in casual water.

At the end of the day it's the players call and once he has declared his intention, his fellow competitors to challenge it or not I guess.

 

[rulie]

The discussions regarding "the natural line of the hazard" are always difficult as we have a lot of water and never line the hazards. I have known people play 2 balls - one as if in the hazard and one not and await clarification post round. One problem is we seem to loose a lot of red and yellow markers over time so some of the post to post lines are crazy.

The other one that always causes a problem is if a water hazard gets too full and overlaps the posts. Again great debate about whether it's in the hazard or in casual water.

At the end of the day it's the players call and once he has declared his intention, his fellow competitors to challenge it or not I guess.

Overflow beyond the stakes/lines is casual water.

 

[Colin L]

Overflow beyond the stakes/lines is casual water.

I expect Mike meant that the debate is about which the ball is in - the casual water or the hazard - because of the difficulty of knowing where the margin is.

If there is doubt, Mike, then you have to consider that the ball is in the hazard.

 

[Bahrain_Baz]

But the point is it doesn't look like it is in!!
It's only because there is no red line it looks like it is in. If there was a red line it clearly would not be in the hazard. Surely, a player should not be penalised for a lack of a red line as he should also not take advantage of a missing one?

 

[rulie]

But the point is it doesn't look like it is in!!
It's only because there is no red line it looks like it is in. If there was a red line it clearly would not be in the hazard. Surely, a player should not be penalised for a lack of a red line as he should also not take advantage of a missing one?

You can still play the ball as it lies even if it is in the hazard, without penalty.

 

[Bahrain_Baz]

Ok. But can you ground your club?

 

[rulefan]

Ok. But can you ground your club?

No. But I think you knew that.

The problem with painted lines is that they cost a fortune to do and maintain. They either get washed out or cut out when the grass is mown.

 

[Region3]

In a similar vein, we have a par 3 with a semi-circle of OB around the back of the green. It's probably 25-30yds walking round the edge of it so quite big, but is only marked by white stakes.

It doesn't happen often but I've heard of more than one time where a ball is inside the semi-circle and very playable but OB according to a straight line between the nearest stakes. Just unlucky.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I think I know the answer to this but we have several hazards marked like this with stakes around basically round but irregularly shaped ponds. The grass within them is not cut. Is it permissable for the committee to define the margin of the hazard as the edge of the cut grass. This would avoid any issues with stake allignment and also clarifies the situation where a ball can be lost but it's not clear if it's in or out. This "boundary" is effectively where you would paint the line if we had enough resources to do it all properly.

 

[rulefan]

The grass within them is not cut. Is it permissable for the committee to define the margin of the hazard as the edge of the cut grass.

Yes but not recommended unless a clear definition can be maintained.