Raking a bunker.

[hovis]

Struggling to find a clear rule on this one.

Today i short sided myself and had to hit a tricky flop shot over a bunker. Some idiot must have held a disco in the bunker. The foot prints were very deep.
Is a golfer allowed to rake a bunker in anticipation that his shot may land in said footprints???

 

[backwoodsman]

I think the answer is no - I am pretty sure it is a breach of 13-2.

Under the exceptions (exception 2) to 13-4 it says you may smooth sand in a bunker at any time provided it is for the care of the course - but only as long as it doesn't cause a breach of 13-2. And smoothing sand on your line of play would be a breach of that rule.

But if the footprints were nowhere near your line of play, then I think no penalty.

 

[woody69]

Short flop over the bunker, you're improving line of play. Long shot over fairway bunker, you'll be ok to rake

 

[duncan mackie]

Short flop over the bunker, you're improving line of play. Long shot over fairway bunker, you'll be ok to rake

The rules make no such distinction.

 

[hovis]

The rules make no such distinction.

This was my thoughts. Who would determined when a short shot becomes a long one. Still unsure on this ruling

 

[backwoodsman]

This was my thoughts. Who would determined when a short shot becomes a long one. Still unsure on this ruling

I think it reasonably clear. Whether the bunker is close by or not, if it is on your line of play, then it is on your line of play. If you smooth footprints then you've made an improvement - and its on your line of play. Simples. Whether it has greater or lesser material relevance is a different argument - which for clarity, the rules don't try to address. (For me, no material difference. I can put a ball into a bunker from anywhere - even if it is not on my line of play )

 

[rulie]

From Decision 13-2/0.5, Meaning of Improve:

• Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:repairs a small pitch-mark, smoothes a footprint in a bunker or replaces a divot in a divot hole on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
• whose ball lies in the middle of a long, shallow-faced fairway bunker, smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to playing a long shot over the smoothed area;

Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

• repairs a pitch-mark through the green or replaces a divot in a divot hole five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to making a stroke from off the putting green that might be affected by the pitch-mark or divot hole (e.g., a putt or a low-running shot);
• whose ball lies in a greenside bunker, smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball on his line of play prior to playing a short shot intended to be played over the smoothed area;

 

[woody69]

The rules make no such distinction.

I never said it did, but it would be how I would interpret the rule based on the wording within the Decision.

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to playing a long shot over the smoothed area

Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball on his line of play prior to playing a short shot intended to be played over the smoothed area

There is no way you could convince me you weren't improving the line of play when trying to hit a flop (as the OP describes it) over a greenside bunker to the green, but I wouldn't take much notice if you were hitting an iron over a fairway bunker to a green 130 yards away or so.

 

[duncan mackie]

I never said it did, but it would be how I would interpret the rule based on the wording within the Decision.

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to playing a long shot over the smoothed area

Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball on his line of play prior to playing a short shot intended to be played over the smoothed area

There is no way you could convince me you weren't improving the line of play when trying to hit a flop (as the OP describes it) over a greenside bunker to the green, but I wouldn't take much notice if you were hitting an iron over a fairway bunker to a green 130 yards away or so.

Sorry for the delay in responding - been away.

I understand what you are saying, and agree that for a reasonably competent golfer this is fine. However, for many more it wouldn't be ie if the answer to the question "do you occasionally top you fairway shots into intervening bunkers?" is yes.

 

[woody69]

Sorry for the delay in responding - been away.

I understand what you are saying, and agree that for a reasonably competent golfer this is fine. However, for many more it wouldn't be ie if the answer to the question "do you occasionally top you fairway shots into intervening bunkers?" is yes.

I do agree with you. Would seem odd if someone started to rake a fairway bunker when they were in front of it, but what would you do when they simply reply, "just caring for the course mate".... 1 minute later. *tops shot into said bunker*? Not much really.

 

[duncan mackie]

I do agree with you. Would seem odd if someone started to rake a fairway bunker when they were in front of it, but what would you do when they simply reply, "just caring for the course mate".... 1 minute later. *tops shot into said bunker*? Not much really.

For most of the golfers I play with I would have warned them in a friendly, possibly humorous, tone not to rake the bit on their line of play when they picked up the rake. There is a specific exception in the blanket permission. Caring for course is permitted at any time providing nothing is done to breach 13-2 - the bit we are discussing.

It wouldn't matter whether he did or didn't top his ball into the area - what would matter would be whether it was a possibility. The penalty wouldn't come into play after he topped it but when he raked.

I think it's important to appreciate that the guidance in the decision quoted above is really for extremes - the further away the bunker the less likely it is that a player will go forward and rake it before playing; especially purely for the care of the course! I suspect that in practice we would all 'rule' the same way on situations for this reason. Generally the whole raking but gets blown up by people jumping on anyone raking anything before playing (or touching the sand with a club when hooking out the rake, putting a spare club down in the bunker etc etc) but is, in practice, now extremely common sense (probably what confuses them!)

 

[delc]

Suppose that your ball lies near the front of a bunker and you rake an area of sand near the back of the bunker, not on your line of play, for the purpose of tidying up the course. Then your shot out hits the lip of the bunker, rebounds back over your head and lands in the raked area. Have you then improved your area of play, or is that just a (favourable) rub of the green?

 

[Colin L]

You've really answered your own question, Del, when you say "not on your line of play, for the purpose of tidying up the course". In those terms, your raking was legitimate. Your line of play is the path you intend your ball to follow but if through a mishit or an unexpected rebound it follows a very different path, that does not change what your line of play was when you raked the part of the bunker away from it. If that's where your rebound lands, it's just a lucky.