rake in bunker

[hovis]

Today I ended up in a bunker the ball hit the vertical face of the bunker and come to rest against the teeth of the rake. Trouble is the rake and ball where on the face of the bunker so removing the rake and replacing the ball was imposible. So I removed the rake and placed the ball back but it stood no chance staying there (it rolled further into thr bunker) any ideas fellas

 

[rosecott]

24-1. Movable Obstruction
A player may take relief, without penalty, from a movable obstruction as follows:
b. If the ball lies in or on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed. The ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay in or on the obstruction, but not nearer the hole.

 

[hovis]

Thanks rosecott

 

[Colin L]

24-1b is probably not the applicable rule. Hovis tells us that the ball came to rest against the teeth of the the rake. By that, I take it he means the ball was resting on the ground up against the rake. If so, his ball is not on or in the movable obstruction and the applicable rule is 24-1a, meaning that he correctly moved the rake. There is no penalty if the ball moves in the process of shifting a movable obstruction and he was correct in trying to replace the ball (not drop it).

Since the ball would not stay put when replaced, he should have found the nearest place in the bunker, not nearer the hole where the ball would stay at rest when placed. Rule 20-3d(ii)

 

[rulefan]

24-1b is probably not the applicable rule. Hovis tells us that the ball came to rest against the teeth of the the rake. By that, I take it he means the ball was resting on the ground up against the rake. If so, his ball is not on or in the movable obstruction and the applicable rule is 24-1a, meaning that he correctly moved the rake. There is no penalty if the ball moves in the process of shifting a movable obstruction and he was correct in trying to replace the ball (not drop it).

Since the ball would not stay put when replaced, he should have found the nearest place in the bunker, not nearer the hole where the ball would stay at rest when placed. Rule 20-3d(ii)

If he could not find such a spot the he must drop outside the bunker with a 1 stroke penalty.

See http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-20/#20-3d/2

This is why rakes should not be left in bunkers

 

[MashieNiblick]

If he could not find such a spot the he must drop outside the bunker with a 1 stroke penalty.

See http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-20/#20-3d/2

This is why rakes should not be left in bunkers

And if they are (and some courses request it) at least not placed carefully just along the back lip on the down slope, which I have seen numerous times. Even if the ball doen't move when you move the rake it leaves a virtually impossible shot. :angry:

 

[Spartacus]

Rakes should be left clear of the bunker or in the bunker with only the tip of the handle remaining outside of it. It should never be left in a horizontal position in or outside of the bunker.

At my place the other week I was playing against a guy in a head to head. On 3 occasions his ball was heading towards the bunker when it hit the horizontally left rake outside the bunker which prevented the ball from going in. It was left there by a visitor in front of us as our club states that all rakes are left clear of the bunkers in the rough. I nearly lost the match!

 

[CMAC]

Rakes should be left clear of the bunker or in the bunker with only the tip of the handle remaining outside of it. It should never be left in a horizontal position in or outside of the bunker.

At my place the other week I was playing against a guy in a head to head. On 3 occasions his ball was heading towards the bunker when it hit the horizontally left rake outside the bunker which prevented the ball from going in. It was left there by a visitor in front of us as our club states that all rakes are left clear of the bunkers in the rough. I nearly lost the match!

and where would you suggest its left that couldnt possibly interfere with a ball heading towards a bunker or in a bunker?

 

[CMAC]

If he could not find such a spot the he must drop outside the bunker with a 1 stroke penalty.

See http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-20/#20-3d/2

This is why rakes should not be left in bunkers

however a rake left in the middle of a bunker only interacts with a ball already in it, leaving it outside can prevent a ball being penalised and leaving a handle sticking out can do the same thing. Leaving it outside can prevent balls going in, so where would you like to see them left rulefan that prevents interference?

 

[Spartacus]

however a rake left in the middle of a bunker only interacts with a ball already in it, leaving it outside can prevent a ball being penalised and leaving a handle sticking out can do the same thing. Leaving it outside can prevent balls going in, so where would you like to see them left rulefan that prevents interference?

Er, in the rough?

 

[Imurg]

and where would you suggest its left that couldnt possibly interfere with a ball heading towards a bunker or in a bunker?

Simple - dispense with rakes altogether.
Bunkers are supposed to be a hazard after all..

 

[rosecott]

24-1b is probably not the applicable rule. Hovis tells us that the ball came to rest against the teeth of the the rake. By that, I take it he means the ball was resting on the ground up against the rake. If so, his ball is not on or in the movable obstruction and the applicable rule is 24-1a, meaning that he correctly moved the rake. There is no penalty if the ball moves in the process of shifting a movable obstruction and he was correct in trying to replace the ball (not drop it).

Since the ball would not stay put when replaced, he should have found the nearest place in the bunker, not nearer the hole where the ball would stay at rest when placed. Rule 20-3d(ii)

For some reason, when I originally read the post, I imagined the ball nestling on the teeth of the rake.

 

[CMAC]

Er, in the rough?

brilliant! :smirk:

so on fairway bunkers you have to go to the rough- left or right side if its in the middle?- and hope you see a rake lying there and not left wrong way up waiting to bat you one in the eye or trossachs :rofl:

 

[hovis]

For some reason, when I originally read the post, I imagined the ball nestling on the teeth of the rake.

The ball was touching the sand on the vertical face of the bunker the rake was
turned teeth inn so the rake was stopping my ball from rolling to the bottom of the bunker

 

[Spartacus]

brilliant! :smirk:

so on fairway bunkers you have to go to the rough- left or right side if its in the middle?- and hope you see a rake lying there and not left wrong way up waiting to bat you one in the eye or trossachs :rofl:

So your course has bunkers in the middle of the fairway does it?

My course (a championship qualifier for the Major UK Open) only has them to the left or right of the fairway, close to the rough where our rakes are meant to be left on a ground hook.

You seem to think that's a funny place to leave them. Why?

 

[CMAC]

So your course has bunkers in the middle of the fairway does it?

My course (a championship qualifier for the Major UK Open) only has them to the left or right of the fairway, close to the rough where our rakes are meant to be left on a ground hook.

You seem to think that's a funny place to leave them. Why?

seriously? you haven't seen bunkers in the middle of a fairway.....how about next years Ryder cup venue, the PGA? or what about Loch Lomond? there are numerous courses, however, irrespective of where the bunker is situated having a rake lying in the rough is just asking for problems, surely you don't need a picture painted or are you seriously saying you don't know why?

what course do you belong to thats a 'qualifier for the major uk open'? just curious but it has no bearing as thats just one course out of thousands

 

[Spartacus]

You're talking about courses where caddies would probably rake the bunkers with a rake from their bag.

During normal play for members then the bunkers in the middle would probably have a rake left in it to avoid slow play.

Other than that it's rakes in the rough for me. Allows the green keepers to cut the fairway grass, which gets cut more often than the rough, without having to dismount to move rakes left outside!

I play at Wallasey. Google it if you don't know it.

 

[Spartacus]

Thinking about it, our second has a middle bunker and has a raised rake adjacent on the short stuff.

The less one sees of rakes during play the better.

 

[CMAC]

You're talking about courses where caddies would probably rake the bunkers with a rake from their bag.

During normal play for members then the bunkers in the middle would probably have a rake left in it to avoid slow play.

Other than that it's rakes in the rough for me. Allows the green keepers to cut the fairway grass, which gets cut more often than the rough, without having to dismount to move rakes left outside!

I play at Wallasey. Google it if you don't know it.

I was a member at one of them for 14 years, I assure you caddies dont ever carry rakes

As for your point about greenkeepers not having to stop to move rakes when they cut the fairway, isnt that what having rakes in bunkers would help, with your point they have to stop and find the bleedin' thing in the rough when they cut it :rofl:

As for Wallasey GC, the home page has a pic with a HUGE bunker in the middle of the fairway

 

[Spartacus]

That's the 4th and the bunker is up the left, about 3 yards from the cut.

It's how rakes are left in bunkers that prevent us from having them in there.

It's more about how a golfer finds his ball in a fair lie than the inconvenience of a green keeper getting off his tractor when he cuts the rough which, at our place, isn't that often!