Qualifying competitions

[Jules rules]

Can a committee declare a qualifying competition as a non qualifier because they believe the weather is bad and the course conditions as a result are not very good ?

 

[rulefan]

They may if the course conditions are exceptionally poor but they should get permission from the County.

 

[Swango1980]

Can a committee declare a qualifying competition as a non qualifier because they believe the weather is bad and the course conditions as a result are not very good ?

To clarify, did the competition START as a "qualifier" and then, when it was closed the Committee decided to change this because of bad weather whilst it was ongoing.

Or, before anyone teed off, did they decide to make it a non-qualifier due to the conditions?

 

[IanM]

On an adjacent theme, I've just had an email from the Seniors Committee stating that no midweek seniors comps will be "Qualifiers" and you should use the existing process for entering supplementary scores.

I guess that takes out the seasonable variables... and it mirrors our Club's previous arrangement for ceasing all qualifiers on 1st November. (and club Saturdays Swindles through the winter are qualifying comps.)

 

[Swango1980]

On an adjacent theme, I've just had an email from the Seniors Committee stating that no midweek seniors comps will be "Qualifiers" and you should use the existing process for entering supplementary scores.

I guess that takes out the seasonable variables... and it mirrors our Club's previous arrangement for ceasing all qualifiers on 1st November. (and club Saturdays Swindles through the winter are qualifying comps.)

That seems odd. Why stop the competitions being qualifiers, yet still allow General Play rounds to be submitted. I'd have thought the only good reason would be course maintenance, making course unacceptable for handicaps. But, clearly not if general play rounds can still be submitted. Sends out a confusing message I think.

 

[Old Skier]

On an adjacent theme, I've just had an email from the Seniors Committee stating that no midweek seniors comps will be "Qualifiers" and you should use the existing process for entering supplementary scores.

I guess that takes out the seasonable variables... and it mirrors our Club's previous arrangement for ceasing all qualifiers on 1st November. (and club Saturdays Swindles through the winter are qualifying comps.)

Weird, if it’s not fit for Qualifier it’s not fit and CANNOT be used for general play purposes.

 

[rulefan]

Not specifically answering the OP but I found this statement made by EG some time ago. I was unaware of the underlined words.

Q: Our club only offer qualifying events during the summer months. Will this still apply?
A: After the introduction of WHS, clubs may still have a recognised playing season. However, as long as the course is playing to its measured length and the rules of golf are followed, players will be able to return scores throughout the year from authorised formats.

But the last sentence is pertinent to post #6

 

[IanM]

Weird, if it’s not fit for Qualifier it’s not fit and CANNOT be used for general play purposes.

That's just it. They are not saying "it isnt fit," they are saying, "we are not doing!"

 

[IanM]

That seems odd. Why stop the competitions being qualifiers, yet still allow General Play rounds to be submitted. I'd have thought the only good reason would be course maintenance, making course unacceptable for handicaps. But, clearly not if general play rounds can still be submitted. Sends out a confusing message I think.

I guess it gives people a choice....

If conditions are not suitable for qualifiers, you won't be able to submit a card.

Seems ok to me

 

[wjemather]

If the course meets handicapping requirements and competitions are held in an acceptable format following the rules of golf, then any organised competition rounds are considered pre-registered. The seniors (or any other) section does not have the authority to opt out.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

On an adjacent theme, I've just had an email from the Seniors Committee stating that no midweek seniors comps will be "Qualifiers" and you should use the existing process for entering supplementary scores.

I guess that takes out the seasonable variables... and it mirrors our Club's previous arrangement for ceasing all qualifiers on 1st November. (and club Saturdays Swindles through the winter are qualifying comps.)

We just have loads of team stuff through the winter with only one individual stableford per month. Lots of people put in GP rounds when the weather permits.

 

[Colin L]

On an adjacent theme, I've just had an email from the Seniors Committee stating that no midweek seniors comps will be "Qualifiers" and you should use the existing process for entering supplementary scores.

I guess that takes out the seasonable variables... and it mirrors our Club's previous arrangement for ceasing all qualifiers on 1st November. (and club Saturdays Swindles through the winter are qualifying comps.)

This seems to me very confused. What makes the days different ? If a Saturday competition is a qualifier and a general play score on, say, a Wednesday is acceptable, how can a competition held on a Wednesday not be a qualifier? ?

 

[IanM]

Not at all confusing....

Saturday is a club comp.

Mid week comp is seniors section. Seniors made their decision based on requirement of their members, not course conditions.

Doesn't necessarily make it logical though!

Although I assume it is them reinstating the club's former (long standing) practice of qualifying comps ending on 31st October!

 

[Swango1980]

Not at all confusing....

Saturday is a club comp.

Mid week comp is seniors section. Seniors made their decision based on requirement of their members, not course conditions.

Doesn't necessarily make it logical though!

Although I assume it is them reinstating the club's former (long standing) practice of qualifying comps ending on 31st October!

When I was handicap sec at my last club, the Seniors drove me mad. They played most of their competitions (I'm talking all season as well) as non-qualifiers. When I asked why, they said it was because it suits the Seniors section. Apparently many of the Seniors feel under too much pressure when it is for handicap, and probably won't play - this is what I was told anyway.

I felt this to be a ridiculous argument. If any Seniors DID feel this way, then I'd put them into 2 camps:

1. Their handicap is too low for them, but they don't want it to go up any more due to their ego, so won't play in qualifiers. That seemed crazy to me, if you're not good enough to play to your handicap, put your scores in and try and naturally get it to somewhere more reasonable, and give yourself a fighting chance in future comps
2. They are comfortable with their handicap and shoot good scores when they are "enjoying" themselves. But, if it is a qualifier, they'll no longer shoot a good score due to the pressure, or their good score will give them a cut and put them under more pressure in future. Well, too bloody bad. If you are prepared to play in a handicap competition, then it is only fair that handicap gets cut after a good round.

Basically, there were a group of Seniors you'd expect to shoot 36+ points most weeks, and another group that would barely ever get over 25 points. Because all the rounds were non-qualifiers, there was no real reporting structure on HDID that would help me out when it came to handicap reviews. And, I didn't really want to rely on the subjective opinions of individual Seniors on who should get chopped (and no-one would ask anyone to go up). So, I had to go through every non-qualifier, record every players scores on a spreadsheet and try and objectively look for any good or bad scoring patterns of all Seniors. Took ages. Thankfully, after that I basically strongly recommended they SHOULD play all competitions as qualifiers (assuming conditions of the comp and course allow it), and they ended up doing just that. Low and behold, numbers did not fall. In fact, a lot of them supported that, as it turned out quite a few were annoyed when their scores, and others, were not being incorporated into handicaps

So, in a nut shell, I'm wary if someone says "we do it this way as it suits our section", only because that may only be the opinion of one person, or a very small group of people. It also seems completely at odds with what the authorities want us to do. If the course and competition are set up to be acceptable for handicaps, I see no good reason why any committee would make it a "non-qualifier". I also do not understand how a golfer feels "stressed out" when playing for handicap, but experience no stress playing in a competition (I thought it would be the other way round if anything). Now, perhaps your section has a very good reason that I'm simply unaware of, I'm just struggling to find it.

I'm certainly not one that would force people to hand in a score from every round of golf. If you're going out for a social round with mates, then that is up to the individual. But, if the club are organising an official handicap competition, then it should be officially used to update player handicaps. It also gives members more opportunities to get handicap counting rounds in. At my old club, there were so many fairly regular members within the Seniors section that had far fewer scores on their record than one would expect, simply down to the number of non-qualifiers they were playing in.

 

[IanM]

Very little to disagree with in all of that.

But I don't think we should be playing qualifying rounds in mucky conditions, which we do have if we've had heavy rain overnight.

 

[rulie]

Very little to disagree with in all of that.

But I don't think we should be playing qualifying rounds in mucky conditions, which we do have if we've had heavy rain overnight.

Isn't that what PCC is meant for?

 

[IanM]

Isn't that what PCC is meant for?

Absolutely. That's why PCC has generated so many queries and challenges!

But, In the case of our Seniors, they have just rejected the notion of off season qualifiers.

 

[rosecott]

Absolutely. That's why PCC has generated so many queries and challenges!

But, In the case of our Seniors, they have just rejected the notion of off season qualifiers.

Is your club main committee happy that your Seniors Section is making decisions that should be made at the main committee level?

 

[IanM]

I've no idea. I assume if they were unhappy, it wouldn't have happened. I think the Seniors are left to do as they see fit in their own comps. (Within reason)

I'm playing with the Seniors Sec in the morning, I'll ask.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When I was handicap sec at my last club, the Seniors drove me mad. They played most of their competitions (I'm talking all season as well) as non-qualifiers. When I asked why, they said it was because it suits the Seniors section. Apparently many of the Seniors feel under too much pressure when it is for handicap, and probably won't play - this is what I was told anyway.

I felt this to be a ridiculous argument. If any Seniors DID feel this way, then I'd put them into 2 camps:

1. Their handicap is too low for them, but they don't want it to go up any more due to their ego, so won't play in qualifiers. That seemed crazy to me, if you're not good enough to play to your handicap, put your scores in and try and naturally get it to somewhere more reasonable, and give yourself a fighting chance in future comps
2. They are comfortable with their handicap and shoot good scores when they are "enjoying" themselves. But, if it is a qualifier, they'll no longer shoot a good score due to the pressure, or their good score will give them a cut and put them under more pressure in future. Well, too bloody bad. If you are prepared to play in a handicap competition, then it is only fair that handicap gets cut after a good round.

Basically, there were a group of Seniors you'd expect to shoot 36+ points most weeks, and another group that would barely ever get over 25 points. Because all the rounds were non-qualifiers, there was no real reporting structure on HDID that would help me out when it came to handicap reviews. And, I didn't really want to rely on the subjective opinions of individual Seniors on who should get chopped (and no-one would ask anyone to go up). So, I had to go through every non-qualifier, record every players scores on a spreadsheet and try and objectively look for any good or bad scoring patterns of all Seniors. Took ages. Thankfully, after that I basically strongly recommended they SHOULD play all competitions as qualifiers (assuming conditions of the comp and course allow it), and they ended up doing just that. Low and behold, numbers did not fall. In fact, a lot of them supported that, as it turned out quite a few were annoyed when their scores, and others, were not being incorporated into handicaps

So, in a nut shell, I'm wary if someone says "we do it this way as it suits our section", only because that may only be the opinion of one person, or a very small group of people. It also seems completely at odds with what the authorities want us to do. If the course and competition are set up to be acceptable for handicaps, I see no good reason why any committee would make it a "non-qualifier". I also do not understand how a golfer feels "stressed out" when playing for handicap, but experience no stress playing in a competition (I thought it would be the other way round if anything). Now, perhaps your section has a very good reason that I'm simply unaware of, I'm just struggling to find it.

I'm certainly not one that would force people to hand in a score from every round of golf. If you're going out for a social round with mates, then that is up to the individual. But, if the club are organising an official handicap competition, then it should be officially used to update player handicaps. It also gives members more opportunities to get handicap counting rounds in. At my old club, there were so many fairly regular members within the Seniors section that had far fewer scores on their record than one would expect, simply down to the number of non-qualifiers they were playing in.

Hmmm. Our cub Thursday Rollup is usually 60+ members most of whom are seniors (let’s say over 55s). It’s a non-qualifier and the organisers don’t do any rollup handicap adjustments though they apply a max singles strokeplay PH of 28. This last Thursday to get into Top 10 you had to score 42pts or more. Just as well I don’t play to win…