Pylons...

[drdel]

So the course has a local rules that say any ball striking a pylon or overhead cable is to be replayed without penalty. Suppose the ball finishes within the base perimeter, which is deep round and bushes without hitting pylon or cable.

Free drop or penalty as unplayable?

 

[guest100718]

is the pylon affecting your stance or swing ?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Think you answered the question yourself.

Is it known or virtually certain the ball hit the pylon? if so replay the shot.

If not and it lands in the rough at the base then either play it or declare it unplayable under penalty.

 

[rulie]

So the course has a local rules that say any ball striking a pylon or overhead cable is to be replayed without penalty. Suppose the ball finishes within the base perimeter, which is deep round and bushes without hitting pylon or cable.

Free drop or penalty as unplayable?

In the situation that you've described, the local Rule is not applicable. However, the pylon is an immovable obstruction and and if it interferes with the lie of the ball, area of intended stance or swing, you are entitled to free relief. Further, there is an Exception to the Rule that says that you are not entitled to relief if anything other than the immovable obstruction (such as the bushes you've indicated) makes the intended stroke clearly impracticable. Next question would be - is your ball "in" the immovable obstruction? That will likely initiate some discussion.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

In the situation that you've described, the local Rule is not applicable. However, the pylon is an immovable obstruction and and if it interferes with the lie of the ball, area of intended stance or swing, you are entitled to free relief. Further, there is an Exception to the Rule that says that you are not entitled to relief if anything other than the immovable obstruction (such as the bushes you've indicated) makes the intended stroke clearly impracticable. Next question would be - is your ball "in" the immovable obstruction? That will likely initiate some discussion.

Doesn't it depend if the pylon is regarded as an integral part of the course in the local rules?

 

[Robster59]

At my old course the rule was pretty much the same. If you hit the pylon, or the cable in-between, you had to retake the shot from the same point whether you wanted to or not. It didn't matter where the ball finished up after it had struck either.

 

[rulie]

Doesn't it depend if the pylon is regarded as an integral part of the course in the local rules?

Yes it does, but if it was deemed to be an integral part of the course, there would be no relief for lie of ball, area of intended stance or swing and that seems a bit penal.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Yes it does, but if it was deemed to be an integral part of the course, there would be no relief for lie of ball, area of intended stance or swing and that seems a bit penal.

Welcome to my world!

Whilst the pylons on one hole are very wide of the fairway their is not relief from them unless you hit them or the wires.

 

[doublebogey7]

Welcome to my world!

Whilst the pylons on one hole are very wide of the fairway their is not relief from them unless you hit them or the wires.

So are you saying the local rules deem them to be an integral part of the course. That really doesn't make any sense. So if your ball was up against the bottom of the pylon and the only way of playing a shot was to hit the pylon you could be stuck playing that same shot until it got dark. Or have a misunderstood.

 

[Colin L]

It makes no sense to me to define a pylon as an integral part of a course either - but there is always relief available by deeming your ball unplayable.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

So are you saying the local rules deem them to be an integral part of the course. That really doesn't make any sense. So if your ball was up against the bottom of the pylon and the only way of playing a shot was to hit the pylon you could be stuck playing that same shot until it got dark. Or have a misunderstood.

To be clear these are wooden poles supporting overhead power lines.

If you cannot play a shot you have to drop away under penalty (or stroke and distance).

As a matter of interest the unofficial record for hitting the overhead wire and then having to replay the same shot is 4 times by one of our senior players. Not sure if it proves consistency or the definition of madness.

 

[rulefan]

To be clear these are wooden poles supporting overhead power lines.

If you cannot play a shot you have to drop away under penalty (or stroke and distance).

Are you saying you have Local Rule deeming the poles to be Integral Parts of the Course?

 

[clubchamp98]

At my old course the rule was pretty much the same. If you hit the pylon, or the cable in-between, you had to retake the shot from the same point whether you wanted to or not. It didn't matter where the ball finished up after it had struck either.

at my old club there was a cable across the par 3 tenth to service the sheds.
Guy clips the cable in a scratch match but goes in for a hole in one .
He was not happy when Refferee told him he must play the shot again.
Always thought that was wrong , you should have the option of play it as it lies or play shot again.

 

[pogle]

at my old club there was a cable across the par 3 tenth to service the sheds.
Guy clips the cable in a scratch match but goes in for a hole in one .
He was not happy when Refferee told him he must play the shot again.
Always thought that was wrong , you should have the option of play it as it lies or play shot again.

There's a basic principle that the player doesn't get to pick and choose in situations like this. It's the same principle that doesn't allow a player to use his provisional when he's found his first ball and wants to deem it unplayable.

 

[drdel]

To add a little clarification to my OP.

The 'pylons' are the conventional nation grid steel structures with 4 legs about 3m apart. Each leg sit in a concrete base foundation.

The discussion arose because one of our partner's ball ended up under the pylon (i.e. within the perimeter of the foundations). The Ball had not hit any cable or part of the steel structure. Although it might have been possible to make a cut-off swing contact would be a bit hit and miss.

Since the LR specified that a "ball hitting..." must be replayed we simply wondered if the ground area upon which the pylon sat could be determined as integral to the structure. If so the shot must be retaken: if not then its free relief within 2 club lengths OR retake from original position.

We weren't exactly sure; hence the OP.

 

[TomTom]

To add a little clarification to my OP.

The 'pylons' are the conventional nation grid steel structures with 4 legs about 3m apart. Each leg sit in a concrete base foundation.

The discussion arose because one of our partner's ball ended up under the pylon (i.e. within the perimeter of the foundations). The Ball had not hit any cable or part of the steel structure. Although it might have been possible to make a cut-off swing contact would be a bit hit and miss.

Since the LR specified that a "ball hitting..." must be replayed we simply wondered if the ground area upon which the pylon sat could be determined as integral to the structure. If so the shot must be retaken: if not then its free relief within 2 club lengths OR retake from original position.

We weren't exactly sure; hence the OP.

More made up Local Rules - why are most golf clubs run by idiots?

 

[Colin L]

To add a little clarification to my OP.

The 'pylons' are the conventional nation grid steel structures with 4 legs about 3m apart. Each leg sit in a concrete base foundation.

The discussion arose because one of our partner's ball ended up under the pylon (i.e. within the perimeter of the foundations). The Ball had not hit any cable or part of the steel structure. Although it might have been possible to make a cut-off swing contact would be a bit hit and miss.

Since the LR specified that a "ball hitting..." must be replayed we simply wondered if the ground area upon which the pylon sat could be determined as integral to the structure. If so the shot must be retaken: if not then its free relief within 2 club lengths OR retake from original position.

We weren't exactly sure; hence the OP.

If I have the picture clear, the ball was lying somewhere in the area within the four legs of the pylon. Unless there were interference by one of the legs or its concrete base, I would not grant relief as I wouldn't consider the ball to be in an obstruction.

 

[clubchamp98]

There's a basic principle that the player doesn't get to pick and choose in situations like this. It's the same principle that doesn't allow a player to use his provisional when he's found his first ball and wants to deem it unplayable.

I disagree with that as well.
Isnt this one of the proposed changes to the rules I think not to sure.
It would speed play up as you would not have to go back stroke and distance.

 

[rulie]

More made up Local Rules - why are most golf clubs run by idiots?

A Local Rule mandating replay for a ball that strikes the overhead wires is an authorized Local Rule. It is also authorized to extend that to the towers or poles that support the wires. See Decision 33-8/13.

 

[GG26]

We have a number of pylons running across our course. They are regarded as an immovable obstruction, so relief without penalty.

For the power cables "if a ball strikes any power cables (not the pylons) within the course the player must disregard the stroke, abandon the ball and play another ball as near as possible to the spot from which the original ball was played without penalty."