Provisional Ball useage

[robert.redmile]

Hi - need a rule expert please to adjudicate!

Can you let us know what the rule is in the following situation....


Player hits errant tee shot, dictating that he takes a provisional, as he fears his first ball may be lost.


Then, on looking for his original ball, he finds it, but it is deemed unplayable by the player as it lies in bounds, but in a very awkward position.


Can he now chose to use his provisional ball that he has already taken, or must he proceed in a different way?

Thanks all, rob

 

[bobmac]

If he finds his first ball he cannot play his provisional

 

[Hosel Fade]

You don't get to choose between a ball in a bush and one in the fairway. Procede under ball unplayable and you need to walk back to the tee and hit #3 if that is the option you choose

 

[stokie_93]

You don't get to choose between a ball in a bush and one in the fairway. Procede under ball unplayable and you need to walk back to the tee and hit #3 if that is the option you choose

had this the other day but not in a comp.

Can you not take a drop if the ball is in bounds?

 

[Lump]

had this the other day but not in a comp.

Can you not take a drop if the ball is in bounds?

You'd have 3 options.
Stroke and distance (back to the last place you played the ball, I.E this time, the tee)
1 Club length no nearer the hole (1 club and then drop within 1 clubs length from that point)
Or as far back on a line between the ball and flag.

 

[Hosel Fade]

had this the other day but not in a comp.

Can you not take a drop if the ball is in bounds?

Yes, you have all the normal options under ball unplayable for one penalty stroke. (ie 2cl from where it lies, back in line with the flag however far you want and re hit from where the previous shot was played)

What you cannot do is hit your tee shot somewhere you think it might be lost, play a provisional, proceed to find your original ball somewhere horrible and then decide you are taking the provisional to be lying 3.

 

[Foxholer]

You'd have 3 options.
Stroke and distance (back to the last place you played the ball, I.E this time, the tee)
1 Club length no nearer the hole (1 club and then drop within 1 clubs length from that point)
Or as far back on a line between the ball and flag.

Option 2 is wrong! Drop under penalty for this is 2 Club lengths Not nearer the hole - not 2 separate 1CL steps! This (2CL) actually gives you a better option as it's at least as far as 2*1CL!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Option 2 is wrong! Drop under penalty for this is 2 Club lengths Not nearer the hole - not 2 separate 1CL steps! This (2CL) actually gives you a better option as it's at least as far as 2*1CL!

I was thinking on that - does it make a difference?

 

[duncan mackie]

I was thinking on that - does it make a difference?

Not as written it doesn't - but it's a quick way to get confused when explaining it that way!

 

[Foxholer]

I was thinking on that - does it make a difference?

Not as written it doesn't - but it's a quick way to get confused when explaining it that way!

It may make an (apparent) illegal drop legal!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It may make an (apparent) illegal drop legal!

And cause confusion if the one club length plus one club length is questioned by someone who says he thinks it's two club lengths, not one - and then we have two club lengths plus one club length - which is not right. Confusion could caused by mixing this (penalty drop) scenrio with that when taking free relief and you get one club length from NPR

 

[Foxholer]

I was thinking on that - does it make a difference?

And cause confusion if the one club length plus one club length is questioned by someone who says he thinks it's two club lengths, not one - and then we have two club lengths plus one club length - which is not right. Confusion could caused by mixing this (penalty drop) scenrio with that when taking free relief and you get one club length from NPR

You are promoting/inventing possible confusion!

 

[TheJezster]

It can roll up to 2 club lengths once dropped too don't forget. So much better than 2 x 1 club drops

 

[duncan mackie]

It can roll up to 2 club lengths once dropped too don't forget. So much better than 2 x 1 club drops

No one has suggested 2 x 1cl drops, only 1 drop at a point within 1cl from a point 1cl from where it lay...

But thanks for proving the case for it being confusing written that way!

 

[rulie]

No one has suggested 2 x 1cl drops, only 1 drop at a point within 1cl from a point 1cl from where it lay...

But thanks for proving the case for it being confusing written that way!

But you can also drop within the first club length since that is still within two club lengths.

 

[stokie_93]

Yes, you have all the normal options under ball unplayable for one penalty stroke. (ie 2cl from where it lies, back in line with the flag however far you want and re hit from where the previous shot was played)

What you cannot do is hit your tee shot somewhere you think it might be lost, play a provisional, proceed to find your original ball somewhere horrible and then decide you are taking the provisional to be lying 3.

I thought you were implying on your previous comment that the only option he had was to go back to the tee, apologies.

But yes i know you cannot simply just pick the provisional.

 

[duncan mackie]

But you can also drop within the first club length since that is still within two club lengths.

Don't understand the point you are trying to make.

"a point within 1cl from a point 1cl from where it lay" will include everywhere from the original point for a distance of up to 2cl.

But again, thanks for another illustration of why the rule isn't written that way!

 

[scubascuba3]

What you could have done is declare the first ball lost before you found it then played your provisional ball. I.e. on approaching the area where your first ball went missing you can see the lie is likely to be terrible and don't want to find it. Anyone disagree?

 

[rulefan]

What you could have done is declare the first ball lost before you found it then played your provisional ball. I.e. on approaching the area where your first ball went missing you can see the lie is likely to be terrible and don't want to find it. Anyone disagree?

Yes. You can't declare a ball lost.

You could cause it to become lost by playing your provisional from a place at or beyond where to expect the original to be. Providing of course that no one else finds it first.

 

[scubascuba3]

Yes. You can't declare a ball lost.

You could cause it to become lost by playing your provisional from a place at or beyond where to expect the original to be. Providing of course that no one else finds it first.

Interesting, thanks, i didn't realise playing the provisional ball as you describe is one way to declare it lost. So your playing partners could be desperately trying to find your ball in dense rough, quickly play the provisional ball (nearer the hole than 1st ball) before the 1st ball is found.