PRIVATE MEMBERS CLUBS - Turning away business!!

[Shiney1983]

Hi all, I am a Director for a golf agency and we are responsible for a high turnover of spend for golf bookings in the UK, both corporate and society days. Our business model is simple, we have the clients, we place the bookings, all we ask in return is a 8% - 10% commission for placing the booking with the chosen venue. I am still having great difficulty with many private members clubs who simply refuse to pay us the commission to place bookings with them. This really baffles me, its a win-win situation for all involved surely? These clubs probably spend hundreds, if not thousands of pounds a year on advertisement, with no real measurement of how successful the adverts are. By working with an agency like ourselves, the commission paid out and the return on this commission is 100% transparent. You would not believe some of the responses we have had to the above. One club actually turned round and said "we do not need any more visitor money!" I would like to see how well that comment would go down with the 750 members or so and see if they all agreed. Golf clubs are 100% a business these days and whilst the economy is still recovering, I think any golf clubs turning away business are very short sighted. Can you ever image Google saying "ok guys, we have made enough money this year, everyone take the rest of the year off". I tried to place a golf booking worth £4k to a club this morning but they refused to offer us our £400 commission to place the booking, which is what has prompted me to write this e-mail. I can always find a venue eventually that works for our clients and works for us, so we very rarely ever lose out. There is only one loser on this scenario and its these clubs / managers who say NO.

 

[patricks148]

If its aprivate members club, then, is it not up to them who they let on the course?

 

[chris661]

Not really. I know of quite a few PRIVATE members clubs that really don't need the money from greenfees, and anyway if the club(s) you ask say no what difference does it make to you? Surely it is the choice of the club in question to accept the booking or not?

 

[BoadieBroadus]

there are downsides to letting large societies on the course - existing events may clash, the course will be backed up for hours, i've yet to play behind a society who didn't leave an enormous number of pitchmarks...

the 750 members are probably more than delighted that the club are selective about societies getting on their course at a 10% discount....

clue is in the name private, unfortunately...

 

[USER1999]

Private members clubs first duty is to the members, who like to be able to turn up and play when ever they want. They pay a bit for the ability to do this. If they can't get a game when they want, they leave.

Booking societies is then a balancing act. I guess once they think they have the ratio right, they don't take more bookings.

Not sure I'd want my club to give away 10% either.

 

[Shiney1983]

If its aprivate members club, then, is it not up to them who they let on the course?

Hi Patricks148, I think you have totally missed the point here. They are more than happy to take the booking with out paying the commission, but do not want to pay the commission. If your yearly subs went up next year due to a drop in visitor revenue and then you found out your secretary turned away a £4k booking for the sake of £400, knowing that booking was still worth probably about £k profit for the club, would you be happy?

 

[BTatHome]

A membership that is healthy will generate enough money to fulfill the money required to set a decent budget. Maybe the membership have decided on a limited number of society bookings? There are a multitude of reason for a club not wanting a huge society bash .... maybe your commission was too high ?

 

[ger147]

Hi all, I am a Director for a golf agency and we are responsible for a high turnover of spend for golf bookings in the UK, both corporate and society days. Our business model is simple, we have the clients, we place the bookings, all we ask in return is a 8% - 10% commission for placing the booking with the chosen venue. I am still having great difficulty with many private members clubs who simply refuse to pay us the commission to place bookings with them. This really baffles me, its a win-win situation for all involved surely? These clubs probably spend hundreds, if not thousands of pounds a year on advertisement, with no real measurement of how successful the adverts are. By working with an agency like ourselves, the commission paid out and the return on this commission is 100% transparent. You would not believe some of the responses we have had to the above. One club actually turned round and said "we do not need any more visitor money!" I would like to see how well that comment would go down with the 750 members or so and see if they all agreed. Golf clubs are 100% a business these days and whilst the economy is still recovering, I think any golf clubs turning away business are very short sighted. Can you ever image Google saying "ok guys, we have made enough money this year, everyone take the rest of the year off". I tried to place a golf booking worth £4k to a club this morning but they refused to offer us our £400 commission to place the booking, which is what has prompted me to write this e-mail. I can always find a venue eventually that works for our clients and works for us, so we very rarely ever lose out. There is only one loser on this scenario and its these clubs / managers who say NO.

A private members club is not a business. It's sole purpose is not to make a profit to divest to shareholders.

There has to be a balance i.e. it has to make some profit so it has money to invest in things over and above the normal course & club maintenance costs but it is NOT about making a profit per se.

Many of these clubs would lose out in the long run if they were to work with a company such as yours and it appears you are as ignorant to their operating model as you are claiming they are to the benefits of working with you.

 

[Shiney1983]

Private members clubs first duty is to the members, who like to be able to turn up and play when ever they want. They pay a bit for the ability to do this. If they can't get a game when they want, they leave.

Booking societies is then a balancing act. I guess once they think they have the ratio right, they don't take more bookings.

Not sure I'd want my club to give away 10% either.

I agree it is a balancing act, but 99% of clubs still rely on visitor green fee revenue to operate the club and set members fees. Its funny that you say you wouldn't be happy about your club giving away 10% on a booking, but do you ever question how much your club spends on advertising, how it is spent and what the return is???

 

[USER1999]

Id like to be at the agm when the accounts are discussed.

Societies 15000
Commission on that 1500

I can see a lot of unhappy people thinking the club are giving money away.

 

[williamalex1]

Most private members clubs don't allow visiting parties at weekends because the members just wouldn't entertain it. But midweek most would bite your hand off. Why not just charge your clients the booking fee , same as other booking companies do when buying tickets for other events.

 

[louise_a]

Maybe they make sufficient bookings, commission free, without the need to take more through an agent who charges.

 

[BoadieBroadus]

so its the club's fault that you don't want to pay their asking price?

you're providing your client societies a service - why not charge them the commission?

i can understand your frustration, but i can't see that you'll find enormous amounts of sympathy.

 

[Shiney1983]

Hi Journeyman Pro, if you think that our commission is high, next time you book a trip with golfbreaks, just know that they have probably charged that venue between 15% - 25% commission on your booking!

 

[Shiney1983]

Hi Boadie, how would you feel if your insurance broker, mortgage broker, etc..... turned round to you and said, thanks for using me, here is my invoice for £x? It just doesn't work that way. Its the end product supplier, business and biggest earner that needs to be flexible in the ways it generates more business.

 

[ger147]

Hi Boadie, how would you feel if your insurance broker, mortgage broker, etc..... turned round to you and said, thanks for using me, here is my invoice for £x? It just doesn't work that way.

Many mortgage brokers charge their customers an arrangement fee so yes, in some cases it does work exactly like that.

 

[DCB]

Just back from Sainsburys after doing the weekly shop. I said to the checkout girl, since I'm coming here and doing my weekly shop for the family, how about Sainsburys giving me an 8-10% commission for giving you all this business. I was told to oxtrot foscar

Think the OP needs to review their business model if they are needing that 8-10% to keep the books sweet.

 

[pokerjoke]

Hi all, I am a Director for a golf agency and we are responsible for a high turnover of spend for golf bookings in the UK, both corporate and society days. Our business model is simple, we have the clients, we place the bookings, all we ask in return is a 8% - 10% commission for placing the booking with the chosen venue. I am still having great difficulty with many private members clubs who simply refuse to pay us the commission to place bookings with them. This really baffles me, its a win-win situation for all involved surely? These clubs probably spend hundreds, if not thousands of pounds a year on advertisement, with no real measurement of how successful the adverts are. By working with an agency like ourselves, the commission paid out and the return on this commission is 100% transparent. You would not believe some of the responses we have had to the above. One club actually turned round and said "we do not need any more visitor money!" I would like to see how well that comment would go down with the 750 members or so and see if they all agreed. Golf clubs are 100% a business these days and whilst the economy is still recovering, I think any golf clubs turning away business are very short sighted. Can you ever image Google saying "ok guys, we have made enough money this year, everyone take the rest of the year off". I tried to place a golf booking worth £4k to a club this morning but they refused to offer us our £400 commission to place the booking, which is what has prompted me to write this e-mail. I can always find a venue eventually that works for our clients and works for us, so we very rarely ever lose out. There is only one loser on this scenario and its these clubs / managers who say NO.

I can see your point quite clearly.
It seems madness that that didn't like your commission rate,thats not high for what you do.
However this club has 750 members,so it doesn't seem to be struggling.
Getting these members on the course without to much conjestion is paramount.
Societies are a pain to some clubs.
Maybe offering this to a smaller membership club would be beneficial.

 

[williamalex1]

Hi Boadie, how would you feel if your insurance broker, mortgage broker, etc..... turned round to you and said, thanks for using me, here is my invoice for £x? It just doesn't work that way. Its the end product supplier, business and biggest earner that needs to be flexible in the ways it generates more business.

The difference is golfers can simply call most club themselves and make a booking, cutting you out and saving money.

 

[Foxholer]

I could certainly name a few Clubs that don't spend a penny on advertising. yet get plenty - if not too many - of visitors wanting to play.

Perhaps you need to approach some clubs in a slightly different way. If you get a 10 for 9 or similar, then that's a little over 10%.

And as others have stated, Private clubs are exactly that - private clubs.

And remember that past a certain threshold of Green Fee revenue, Private clubs actually become a business for VAT purposes - and need to pay HMRC 20% of all income!! So genuine Private Clubs would need to be aware if they are actually anywhere near that level. I understand there's a few that owe HMRC a considerable amount - following a ruling some time ago!

And btw. The Insurance/Investment industry has been encouraged in recent years to change from being commission based to being fee based - as it's much more 'open and honest'.