Preferred lies

[virtuocity]

Silly question which I keep forgetting to ask.

If it's preferred lies and there's a chunk of divot grass within 6 inches of the ball, can you place the ball on top of it so it's like teeing up?

 

[CliveW]

As long as it isn't nearer the hole, I don't see why not.

 

[atticusfinch]

What is divot grass?

 

[rulefan]

Silly question which I keep forgetting to ask.

If it's preferred lies and there's a chunk of divot grass within 6 inches of the ball, can you place the ball on top of it so it's like teeing up?

You may place it on whatever is there already.
eg a worm cast, a leaf or even a tee peg that someone has left in the ground

 

[virtuocity]

You may place it on whatever is there already.
eg a worm cast, a leaf or even a tee peg that someone has left in the ground

That's it- next winter I'm lining the course with red castles! :thup:

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Silly question which I keep forgetting to ask.

If it's preferred lies and there's a chunk of divot grass within 6 inches of the ball, can you place the ball on top of it so it's like teeing up?

It's preferred lies so You can place it wherever you prefer including I guess on some fluffy grass in the rough if you were close enough?

 

[rulefan]

It's preferred lies so You can place it wherever you prefer including I guess on some fluffy grass in the rough if you were close enough?

Correct

 

[Whereditgo]

Can't press the ball down so that it stays sat on the selected worm cast though and once you let go you can't touch the ball again.

 

[rulefan]

Can't press the ball down so that it stays sat on the selected worm cast though and once you let go you can't touch the ball again.

Not entirely correct.
If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies.

If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot:
(i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard;

 

[Slab]

Not entirely correct.
If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies.

If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot:
(i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard;

Interesting, I also wrongly thought that a player doesn't have the option to place, place place etc How would us mortals know to use 20-3d for a preferred lie? is their a decision or something to refer to?

Previously I used this R&A question within Preferred Lies explanation:
Q. What happens if I do not like the spot that I have placed my ball on and want to change it?

The player is only entitled to prefer the lie once, so the spot on which to place the ball must be chosen carefully! The ball is in play as soon as it is placed on the ground. If the player picks it up again and moves it, he would incur a penalty stroke for moving his ball in play and the ball must be replaced (Rule 18-2a) (my bold)

edit: My thought process was that any 'failure to come to rest' could only occur after a ball has been placed

 

[Colin L]

It's simply the difference between placing a ball which won't sit still where you put it and having second thoughts about where you placed a ball that is sitting there quite contentedly without moving.

If you place it and it moves away, you replace it. If it doesn't move and you don't like what you've done, it will cost you 2 strokes if you move it to a better position.

 

[atticusfinch]

Where do you get the idea the player has an option to place, replace , replace? Rule 20-3d requires replacement of a ball that ends up in a wrong place because it does not come to rest in the correct spot. There is no option. If the ball comes to rest in the correct spot he must play it from there. If it does not he must replace until it does. There is no decision necessary, the rule clearly states it.

 

[rulefan]

Interesting, I also wrongly thought that a player doesn't have the option to place, place place etc How would us mortals know to use 20-3d for a preferred lie? is their a decision or something to refer to?

The words I quoted above are actually in the specimen Local Rule itself which your club should have posted.

A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.
A player may place his ball only once, and it is in play when it has been placed (Rule 20-4). If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies. If the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.
If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.
Note: “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.
[h=3]*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:[/h]Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

 

[Slab]

Where do you get the idea the player has an option to place, replace , replace? Rule 20-3d requires replacement of a ball that ends up in a wrong place because it does not come to rest in the correct spot. There is no option. If the ball comes to rest in the correct spot he must play it from there. If it does not he must replace until it does. There is no decision necessary, the rule clearly states it.

Erm because rulefan said :
Not entirely correct.
If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies.

If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot:
(i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard;

And just so I can be 100% sure:
When preferring a lie, can a ball even 'end up in the wrong place' if its still within the LR distance and is there actually a 'correct spot'





Edit, thanks guys that extra part makes sense when considering failure to come to rest

 

[rulefan]

Erm because rulefan said :
And just so I can be 100% sure:
When preferring a lie, can a ball even 'end up in the wrong place' if its still within the LR distance and is there actually a 'correct spot'

If the ball is at rest and then moves it must be played as it lies without penalty. Wrong place is not an issue.

If the ball fails to come to rest at all it must be replaced on the spot you were trying to place it in the first place. If it still fails to come to rest then it must be placed where it will come to rest.
If it is played from where it finishes the Local Rule is breached.

 

[Slab]

If the ball is at rest and then moves it must be played as it lies without penalty. Wrong place is not an issue.

If the ball fails to come to rest at all it must be replaced on the spot you were trying to place it in the first place. If it still fails to come to rest then it must be placed where it will come to rest.
If it is played from where it finishes the Local Rule is breached.

Cheers, think I was confusing it with a player who places it (ball at rest) takes fingers off ball but hovers within an inch or so and decides to make minor adjustment (edit: even ball rotation/alignment) to the placing by touching the ball again

 

[rulefan]

That is an absolute no no.