Police Verification

Thread starter #1

drdel

Tour Rookie
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
4,071
I've read quite a few articles about the problems of Police possibly acting illegally/threateningly. Some comments are just a kneejerk reaction to the highly rare case in the news bbut there is now an issue with credibility.

Cops carry body cameras and a variety of other comms I wonder if it would be possible for theri radios/mobile to have a green or red light connected to there system that showed when they were on duty etc. This would be cheap and anyone they were talking to would see instant verification of their authenticity.

Other ideas ???
 

Lord Tyrion

Money List Winner
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
19,365
Location
Northumberland
I was very surprised to hear that police may be out as singles, either uniformed or plain clothes. I thought they would always be in a 2, for their own safety as much as anything. Being in a 2 should reduce the potential for corruption or illegal behaviour.

We have to be careful not to upturn everything for a single rogue officer. Equally if this brings about a change in behaviour in certain instances then maybe some good can come out of this horrible incident. I saw a former Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire yesterday, Sue Fish. From what I heard of her, and the changes she brought into that force, she is a person who should be front and centre of the current debate.
 

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
10,776
Location
Liverpool
I've read quite a few articles about the problems of Police possibly acting illegally/threateningly. Some comments are just a kneejerk reaction to the highly rare case in the news bbut there is now an issue with credibility.

Cops carry body cameras and a variety of other comms I wonder if it would be possible for theri radios/mobile to have a green or red light connected to there system that showed when they were on duty etc. This would be cheap and anyone they were talking to would see instant verification of their authenticity.

Other ideas ???
How will a light make them authentic?
The main prob imo is plain clothes officers.
It could be anyone.
I was flashed in my car years ago by the scruffiest cop I have ever seen.( plain car , no uniform)
I carried on driving until I got to the security gate where I worked.
But what happens if the cops class this as a failure to stop.
Is it resisting aresst to refuse to comply ?
This has turned into an unholy mess.

Will solo men be able to refuse to comply or only women alone
This will cause the police massive problems .
How many on here would know what a genuine warrant card looked like,? I don’t.
There has been a lack of respect for the law creeping in for years, all the cuts havnt helped.
When you need one they seem very uninterested in low level crimes ,burglary etc.
But the police have done themselves no favours as well, investigating themselves has to stop.
I feel sorry for genuine cops who are trying to do their best, but one bad apple has seriously undermined them in lots of peoples eyes.
 

CliveW

Tour Winner
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,702
Location
Perthshire
I am amazed that in England police act singly, particularly traffic police. In Scotland it has always been the case that they are in pairs so there is a witness to their actions. I suppose this dates back to before the advent of dashcams and personal cameras but it still seems to be the case.
 

Midnight

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
2,467
I was very surprised to hear that police may be out as singles, either uniformed or plain clothes. I thought they would always be in a 2, for their own safety as much as anything. Being in a 2 should reduce the potential for corruption or illegal behaviour.

We have to be careful not to upturn everything for a single rogue officer. Equally if this brings about a change in behaviour in certain instances then maybe some good can come out of this horrible incident. I saw a former Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire yesterday, Sue Fish. From what I heard of her, and the changes she brought into that force, she is a person who should be front and centre of the current debate.
Unfortunately there are not enough officers to be double - crewed all the time, this has been the case for a while.

I remember detaining someone who was a handful, and had to restrain him for over 30 mins till another colleague arrived to help.

In regards to verifying ID of officers, plain clothes or not, there isn't a easy answer. You could ask to speak to the control room to confirm that the officer is who they say they are, but again control room staff are rushed off their feet dealing with calls, so this call could take ages to answer.
 

Bunkermagnet

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
5,737
Location
Kent
I feel very sorry for th vast majority of the Police, having to deal with the current mess.
I notice though that the knee jerking going on hasn't hasn't called into question the trust given to Priests, Doctors, female nurses, teachers and any other profession we trust but has had persons who have carried out abhorrent acts.
 
Last edited:

CliveW

Tour Winner
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,702
Location
Perthshire
I feel very sorry for th vast majority of the Police, having to deal with the current mess.
I notice thought that the knee jerking going on hasn't hasn't called into question the trust given to Priests, Doctors, female nurses, teachers and any other profession we trust but has had persons who have carried out abhorrent acts.
Why female nurses in particular?
 

Neilds

Assistant Pro
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
1,351
Location
Wiltshire
I agree with the comments saying this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Wayne Curzens was a policeman, he was not all of the police. I also found it strange that Police Scotland are giving out a card to allow people to ring a number to verify the policeman’s identity if required. Could this not easily be abused in the same way you can click on a fake link in a scam email?
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2021
Messages
13
Unfortunately the mainstream media and successive governments have had it in for the police for years. The only stories you hear are bad ones about them. As stated earlier we didn’t get this outcry about all doctors when Harold Shipman killed hundreds, nor did we get it about all taxi drivers when John Worboys raped a dozen women so why does one bad police officer make them all bad?
 

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
13,768
It seems police verification blog has turned into a blog on individual police officers etc. I don’t have a problem with that but some views and opinions are aired with a lack of knowledge.
Sue Fish of Notts quote Wikipedia
Fish has spoken about the 'toxic culture of sexism' in the police force[6][7][8] [9]and about her own experience of sexual assult by colleagues.
It happens, I have also spoken to ex police officers who have spoken freely since they have retired of the police employing people who fill roles because they are black, white, gay, female or white male Or a certain ethnic culture or religion. They fill that role because the police officers role has to now cover a multicultural society in which a multicultural police force is required. What you get is now police officers recruited who are now in jobs who now are not up to standard.
Also because of nepotism or call it whatever some folk do not get promoted because of the colour of there skin or culture. That has been stated this week.
what I cannot understand is how a copper can join the police in 2018 and yet be diplomatic carrying copper inside 2 years.
My grief is the police force like the nursing industry, lorry drivers and am sure many others is becoming a toxic industry to join.
 

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
8,965
Location
Cambs
This guy was clearly a monster and, hopefully, a one off BUT it remains that since this I would be very wary of a single police officer arresting me (especially if I'd done nothing wrong). I would 100% want to check his credentials and, prior to this horrific act, I probably wouldn't think I could or should do so.

What's to say other monsters don't attempt to mimic his methods as it worked. Fake warrant card...

I can't work out what's going on in society at the moment but it feels like we've gone backwards and racism, sexism, homophobia and mysogyny are on the rise. Or are those with such beliefs just getting braver and being more visible...
 
Thread starter #13

drdel

Tour Rookie
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
4,071
How will a light make them authentic?
The main prob imo is plain clothes officers.
It could be anyone.
I was flashed in my car years ago by the scruffiest cop I have ever seen.( plain car , no uniform)
I carried on driving until I got to the security gate where I worked.
But what happens if the cops class this as a failure to stop.
Is it resisting aresst to refuse to comply ?
This has turned into an unholy mess.

Will solo men be able to refuse to comply or only women alone
This will cause the police massive problems .
How many on here would know what a genuine warrant card looked like,? I don’t.
There has been a lack of respect for the law creeping in for years, all the cuts havnt helped.
When you need one they seem very uninterested in low level crimes ,burglary etc.
But the police have done themselves no favours as well, investigating themselves has to stop.
I feel sorry for genuine cops who are trying to do their best, but one bad apple has seriously undermined them in lots of peoples eyes.
I was under the impression you are only 'forced' to stop by an officer in uniform
 

hairball_89

Club Champion
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
719
How do you verify someone when the current advice for not getting abducted or kidnapped is to resist arrest?

The "not all police" is the same as "all lives matter". It's not good enough.
 

SocketRocket

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
16,867
I've read quite a few articles about the problems of Police possibly acting illegally/threateningly. Some comments are just a kneejerk reaction to the highly rare case in the news bbut there is now an issue with credibility.

Cops carry body cameras and a variety of other comms I wonder if it would be possible for theri radios/mobile to have a green or red light connected to there system that showed when they were on duty etc. This would be cheap and anyone they were talking to would see instant verification of their authenticity.

Other ideas ???
In the days of 'Dixon of Dock Green' Police on duty wore a stripy arm band. I know these days that would be somewhat simplistic but maybe there could be something to identify them but I can't think of what that may be.
 

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
13,768
This guy was clearly a monster and, hopefully, a one off BUT it remains that since this I would be very wary of a single police officer arresting me (especially if I'd done nothing wrong). I would 100% want to check his credentials and, prior to this horrific act, I probably wouldn't think I could or should do so.

What's to say other monsters don't attempt to mimic his methods as it worked. Fake warrant card...

I can't work out what's going on in society at the moment but it feels like we've gone backwards and racism, sexism, homophobia and mysogyny are on the rise. Or are those with such beliefs just getting braver and being more visible...

It seems to me that it has been allowed to become an accepted part of our society instead of the detterent and custodial sentences cracking down on it ☹️
 

Ethan

Money List Winner
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
10,595
Location
Bearwood Lakes, Berks
Unfortunately the mainstream media and successive governments have had it in for the police for years. The only stories you hear are bad ones about them. As stated earlier we didn’t get this outcry about all doctors when Harold Shipman killed hundreds, nor did we get it about all taxi drivers when John Worboys raped a dozen women so why does one bad police officer make them all bad?
In fact, Shipman was used as a justification for putting in place a rigid system of appraisal and revalidation for doctors, none of which would have had the slightest effect on detecting Shipman.
 

Swinglowandslow

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2018
Messages
2,143
There has been knee jerk reaction, without much thought for reality.
First, one police officer here has committed an absolutely horrendous crime, but it is such a "personal" type of crime. It is not an institutional trait, or an offence indicating such.
If any member of any profession or family or organisation, committed such a heinous crime, does that mean it likely that others of that profession, family etc may do the same? Come on! Of course not.
However, a woman alone is vulnerable from any rogue , including rogue officers. And a policeman does have legal authority to tell you that you have to go with him( in certain circumstances). So, how to calm women's understandable worries about that.?
As well as expressing ( what was sincere )regret etc, the Met Commissioner has had time to draw up , or say that there are plans to have, a change of policy. Something on the lines of.

1.Any plain clothes officer anticipating an arrest of a lone woman should ensure he is accompanied by a uniformed officer. Unless such arrest is immediately necessary, the matter can be relatively easy to arrange.
2.Police officers will not ever transport an arrested woman alone. He will await other uniformed officers to assist in that.
3.If a lone officer has to arrest a woman urgently where no other officer is available, he will call upon any person nearby to stay present as witness to his genuineness , and as a reassurance to the woman. He will ensure urgent communication to his control room to report what has happened and where he is. He should ensure that is seen to be done by the woman.

Something like this is feasible. And in this day and age, is required.
It has been rightly said that officers , often( in the past mostly )patrol alone. Because of low numbers. But plain clothes officers should now be asked to work in pairs in anticipated circumstances where an arrest is likely.

I do not see policies along those lines as making the officers job much harder.
But it should reassure women that approaches by officers are not to be feared.
Of course, it doesn't change the danger from anyone impersonating an officer but that is not what this is about. That danger has always been there.

That monster has damaged women's trust, but to fairminded people it is OTT to talk as if the Police force has others like him in their midst. Just as it can rightly be thought that there are no other Drs like Shipman.
 

Bunkermagnet

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
5,737
Location
Kent
In my working life, I am regularly in the houses/apartments of Americans living here. All too often I hear from new arrivals here is how we all carry knives and people are stabbed all the time on Londons streets....because that is what their media report.
Just as we have seen how the media has contributed to the current fuel situation we must accept that the media response to WC and his actions is creating the narrative that all the police are untrustworthy.
They aren't and they can be trusted.
 
Top