sportsbob
Assistant Pro
What is the ruling regarding a plugged ball when it is not on the cut grass? My understanding that if it is plugged in the rough, in fact anywhere than in a hazard, you can remove it and drop without penalty?
plugged ball in the rough
- Thread starter sportsbob
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SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
No not normally.....
upsidedown
Tour Winner
We have a LR as part of our Winter rules to allow you to clean and drop if plugged in rough
Foxholer
Blackballed
Only if there's a Local Rule in place! This often comes into effect as a 'Winter Rule', along with 'Preferred Lies' but while Preferred Lies is only applicable for a specific period, Plugged in the Rough can be (and I believe should be) applied permanently. There's a specimen rule in the appendix of Rules of Golf. Note that the Drop must be 'as near as possible to where ball lies'.
palindromicbob
Tour Winner
Sorry your understanding is wrong but my be unclear due to a local rule at your course. My course has a local rule for ball bulged through the green and some members think its a rule everywhere as a result.
Without a local rule then 25-2 is all that applies.
"A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. “Closely-mown area†means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less."
Without a local rule then 25-2 is all that applies.
"A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. “Closely-mown area†means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less."
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sportsbob
Assistant Pro
So unless there is a local rule in place, you either drop with one shot penalty as an unplayable lie, or try and hack your ball out of the plugged lie in the rough (and then apologise to the green staff later)?
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
yes
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
One of the most unfair rules IMO, cost me 2 shots in a medal this year, missed the fairway by a yard twice in the same medal and had to drop, cod have seen me cut a further 0.4 that day.
The pros don't get this in tournaments because when the course is that wet these areas are normally marked GUR or get declared abnormal conditions
The pros don't get this in tournaments because when the course is that wet these areas are normally marked GUR or get declared abnormal conditions
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
Pros play plugged ball through the green as local rule in all tournaments apart from Open and US Open I think......
rulefan
Tour Winner
Perhaps you should speak to your committee. Most parkland clubs introduce it for the winter season or after prolonged rain.
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rulefan
Tour Winner
It is on the hard card specifically because they play so many different courses in all seasons of the year. The thought is that many of the pros would forget or miss a changeable local rule. Easy answer, always have it.
The Open doesn't need it, as all courses are links and rarely suffer from the problem. They would use it if necessary.
The USGA do have it on their hard card.
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Same as our place.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
We also have the LR for lift, clean & replace for a ball in the rough which is not plugged (specimen LR 4b)
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
We have it throughout winter, when the comps start in April we have preffered lies for a bit but not generally through the greens unless it is really wet, we have 2 holes on our course where even in height of summer after a burst of real heavy rain we can get really soft patches as they are low lying and close to water hazards. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. Frustrating I suppose.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Although the specimen local rule doesn't say so, I know the R&A would not object to a local rule specifying defined areas on named holes in a permanent LR. It would certainly be better than declaring them GUR.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
there aren't many situations where I feel the rules are 'wrong'; but this is one.
to argue that a local rule should be in place if conditions are such that a player may find his ball embedded is 100% consistent with providing relief TTG under 25-2!
put another way, finding a ball embedded proves that the LR should be in place etc
all of which suggests that there must be another reason for not widening 25-2 to TTG - or the Rules need changing.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Duncan
It is simply not considered to be a permanent problem on most courses. Similar to stones in bunkers.
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
There would be too much of a woolly interpretation in deeper rough. Is it embedded in the ground? in the undergrowth? in the moss? etc etc. which leaves too much down to interpretation. It's a bit like the divot rule.....when does a divot become normal bumps and hollows again?
I don't actually think it's that unfair tbh. As Val said above, there are areas of the course that are susceptible to this and most of the time we are all aware of both how likely it is to plug and where these areas are. I know on our course that's the case and we (try to) play accordingly. I don't moan (well not about the rules) if I hit a bad shot and end up in a pond but if it goes in an area it may plug, that I knew was there and wasn't aiming for I should be ranting? I don't think so.
That said, it can be unfair sometimes (just like divots) and obviously if you don't know the course you are hardly likely to know from a course planner.......but IMO absolutely no case for making relief through the green a permanent rule and it should remain on a course by course basis.
I don't actually think it's that unfair tbh. As Val said above, there are areas of the course that are susceptible to this and most of the time we are all aware of both how likely it is to plug and where these areas are. I know on our course that's the case and we (try to) play accordingly. I don't moan (well not about the rules) if I hit a bad shot and end up in a pond but if it goes in an area it may plug, that I knew was there and wasn't aiming for I should be ranting? I don't think so.
That said, it can be unfair sometimes (just like divots) and obviously if you don't know the course you are hardly likely to know from a course planner.......but IMO absolutely no case for making relief through the green a permanent rule and it should remain on a course by course basis.
agreed- one of the unfairest rules around- even the pro's dont hit every fairway but we will be punished as the grounds not firm enough to bounce a projectile zero-ing in from 200 feet at 120mph.
Foxholer
Blackballed
That doesn't actually alter the logic about whether to make it permanent! If it's not a permanent/frequent problem, then the situation doesn't arise - so no problem; if it does, then it's covered!
It's one of 2 or 3 I wouldn't mind seeing - and the simplest to implement.
@Fyldewhite I disagree! 'in its own pitch mark' is quite specific wherever it is. And it's not for deep rough so much as the semi or stuff just away from Green. I finally saw an old club had implemented the LR (I tried unsuccessfully years before) a while ago, though it was only after an ex-Captain plugged on a Par 3, that dropped 50ft Tee to Green, in an Inter-club Match!
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