Playing from wrong tee with an OOB

[ChrisWelsh]

This happened to me in a medal a few weeks ago and I don't know we really got the answer bottomed out so am interested to hear what people think the situation would be.

It's a normal strokeplay monthly medal and we're out in a two ball, playing off white tees.

We get to the 9th tee which is close to a nearby green (11th) and there is a sign on the tee requesting that we give priority to anyone on the 11th green, so we do so and wait for a minute or two.

When ready, my fellow competitor stepped onto the yellow tee and drove his ball out of bounds. We also notice that he has tee'd off from the wrong place and move to the white tee to begin again. This one was fine, so he plays on but can't figure out his penalty strokes.

We thought it would be a 2 stroke penalty for playing from the wrong tee and that he should play again this time from the white tee.

Much discussion in the pro shop and clubhouse afterwards, with some very differing opinions about it.

 

[freddielong]

This happened to me in a medal a few weeks ago and I don't know we really got the answer bottomed out so am interested to hear what people think the situation would be.

It's a normal strokeplay monthly medal and we're out in a two ball, playing off white tees.

We get to the 9th tee which is close to a nearby green (11th) and there is a sign on the tee requesting that we give priority to anyone on the 11th green, so we do so and wait for a minute or two.

When ready, my fellow competitor stepped onto the yellow tee and drove his ball out of bounds. We also notice that he has tee'd off from the wrong place and move to the white tee to begin again. This one was fine, so he plays on but can't figure out his penalty strokes.

We thought it would be a 2 stroke penalty for playing from the wrong tee and that he should play again this time from the white tee.

Much discussion in the pro shop and clubhouse afterwards, with some very differing opinions about it.

Just the penalty for playing from the wrong place it doesn't matter that the ball finished OOB as it was never in play, as long as you correct the error by playing a ball from the correct tee (which you did if you hadn't you would be dqd ).

 

[Twire]

2 Stroke penalty and he has to correct his error i.e. play from the correct Tee. If error is not corrected before teeing off on the next Tee he is disqualified. Rule 11-4

 

[ManinBlack]

Much discussion in the pro shop and clubhouse afterwards, with some very differing opinions about it.

I hope the pro wasn't party to these discussions, pretty obvious answer.

 

[rulefan]

Much discussion in the pro shop

Did the pro shop staff not manage to find the rule (11-4b) in the pile of free rule books they have in there?

 

[ChrisWelsh]

No, the assistant pro couldn't find it.

It seemed like a classic golf club situation to me where the thick rule book was daunting and lots of people had different opinions, which just confused things no end.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No, the assistant pro couldn't find it.

It seemed like a classic golf club situation to me where the thick rule book was daunting and lots of people had different opinions, which just confused things no end.

In truth in this case the issue isn't the thickness of the rule book - it's not actually knowing how to think through an issue. In that once a rule has been broken what happens subsequently is completely irrelevant - be that another rule break, or an immediate event such as here with the ball going OoB (there may be special circumstances where this does not apply - maybe to do with a local rule - but I can't think of any off top of my head). In general 'nothing weird happening play' you only have to decide the ruling on the 'first' rule break. And here it is simply 'ball played from wrong tee'.

 

[ManinBlack]

No, the assistant pro couldn't find it.

It seemed like a classic golf club situation to me where the thick rule book was daunting and lots of people had different opinions, which just confused things no end.

What!? Could he not find "wrong tee" in the index?

 

[duncan mackie]

In truth in this case the issue isn't the thickness of the rule book - it's not actually knowing how to think through an issue.

In that once a rule has been broken what happens subsequently is completely irrelevant -...

Without doubt the whole process of thinking through an issue in rules terms is key to finding the applicable ruling.

I think this second bit is best left out....there are a huge number of rules where 'what happens subsequently' has a significant bearing, normally including the requirement to return (to the correct teeing ground) and replay (in this instance).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Without doubt the whole process of thinking through an issue in rules terms is key to finding the applicable ruling.

I think this second bit is best left out....there are a huge number of rules where 'what happens subsequently' has a significant bearing, normally including the requirement to return (to the correct teeing ground) and replay (in this instance).

What I meant was actually to do with any subsequent event that in other circumstances would be a rule break being irrelevant. Clearly once a rule has been broken, what subsequently happened (if anything) will affect what you do next in respect of the rule broken.

 

[rulie]

The front of the Rule book provides this:

[FONT=&quot] To answer any question on the Rules you must consider the facts of the case in some detail. You should identify:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The form of play [/FONT][FONT=&quot](match play, stroke play; single, foursome or four-ball).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is involved [/FONT][FONT=&quot](the player, his partner or caddie, an outside agency).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Where the incident occurred [/FONT][FONT=&quot](e.g., on the teeing ground, in a bunker or water hazard, on the putting green).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• [/FONT][FONT=&quot]What actually happened[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The player's intentions [/FONT][FONT=&quot](what was he doing and what does he want to do).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The timing of the incident [/FONT][FONT=&quot](e.g., has the player now returned his score card, has the competition closed).[/FONT]

 

[duncan mackie]

What I meant was actually to do with any subsequent event that in other circumstances would be a rule break being irrelevant. Clearly once a rule has been broken, what subsequently happened (if anything) will affect what you do next in respect of the rule broken.

At risk of confusing this thread and heading off at a wild tangent....an example

Playing winter rules you have a spare ball in your pocket. You mark lift and clean your ball on the fairway, then your bag falls over. You put your ball in your pocket, pick up the bag, replace your ball and knock it out of bounds. When you take the spare out of your pocket you realise you had swapped it for your original ball. To save discussion; you have broken a rule ( substituted your ball during the play of the hole other than when permitted by the rules) but the OOB penalty still applies.