Playing A Ball OOB

[Region3]

A situation cropped up today (not in my group) and I was asked afterwards if I knew the answer. I said "no, but I will find out for you"

Player hits his tee shot into a tree near OOB so plays a provisional ball.
They find his ball, but the OOB markers aren't particularly well placed and determining where the OOB starts can be difficult. All 3 of them decide that the ball is in play, and the player hits his ball back out onto the fairway.

Another group coming back the other way were watching, and as they passed each other they said that they thought the ball was OOB. Another discussion ensued and all 6 of them agreed that the ball was indeed OOB.

What is the penalty and relevant rule (if any) for the player playing a ball that was not in play (OOB) albeit in good faith that they thought it was in play?

My best guess was that it would be a 2 stroke penalty for playing a practice stroke, but it is purely a guess.

Can anyone confirm or put me right please?

 

[upsidedown]

I'll hazard a guess that no penalty as the ball was not in play when hit as it was not on the course??

 

[pbrown7582]

I would of said no penalty but can I ring a friend? ...

 

[Region3]

I've just been pointed towards this.

Strangely, the R&A rules only go up to 15/3, but this is 15/6 from the USGA version

From what's below, I think he would play his next shot with his provisional ball (which hadn't been picked up yet as it was much further away) and it would be his 6th?


[h=2]15/6[/h][h=4]Stroke Played with Ball Lying Out of Bounds[/h]Q.A player plays a stroke at his ball which is lying out of bounds. What is the ruling?
A.A ball lying out of bounds is no longer in play and thus is a wrong ball - see Definitions of "Ball in Play" and "Wrong Ball." Accordingly, in match play, the player loses the hole. In stroke play, he incurs a two-stroke penalty and must proceed under Rule 27-1, incurring the additional one-stroke penalty prescribed in that Rule.

 

[SammmeBee]

I've just been pointed towards this.

Strangely, the R&A rules only go up to 15/3, but this is 15/6 from the USGA version

From what's below, I think he would play his next shot with his provisional ball (which hadn't been picked up yet as it was much further away) and it would be his 6th?


[h=2]15/6[/h][h=4]Stroke Played with Ball Lying Out of Bounds[/h]Q.A player plays a stroke at his ball which is lying out of bounds. What is the ruling?
A.A ball lying out of bounds is no longer in play and thus is a wrong ball - see Definitions of "Ball in Play" and "Wrong Ball." Accordingly, in match play, the player loses the hole. In stroke play, he incurs a two-stroke penalty and must proceed under Rule 27-1, incurring the additional one-stroke penalty prescribed in that Rule.

Just needed to go to next page of R&A Decisions!!

 

[pbrown7582]

That's pretty definitive you'd be pretty peeved with someone either the marker agreeing your ball was in play or the other group cost you 3 shots.

 

[upsidedown]

Doh, back to school for me .

 

[Region3]

Just needed to go to next page of R&A Decisions!!

Doh!

I see it now. I was looking for a rule 15/6 not decision 15/6

 

[6inchcup]

so as to clarify the facts,your playing in a 3 ball and you all agree the ball is in play after looking at the situation and position of the ball,BUT another group have decided to make the decision for you,firstly i would ask what has it to do with them because you had made the decision,and secondly were they infering you were cheating if so your 3 ball should have been DQ'D.

 

[Tommo21]

so as to clarify the facts,your playing in a 3 ball and you all agree the ball is in play after looking at the situation and position of the ball,BUT another group have decided to make the decision for you,firstly i would ask what has it to do with them because you had made the decision,and secondly were they infering you were cheating if so your 3 ball should have been DQ'D.

I would have played the ball after hitting it out onto the fairway. What do you do, wait for another group to come up and say its in..........If your playing partners say its in and you play the next shot...then thats it. IMHO

 

[Colin L]

I'll hazard a guess that no penalty as the ball was not in play when hit as it was not on the course??

Just to clarify this one for you, the course can include OOB areas so a ball may well be on the course but OOB. As you see from later postings, you were right that the ball was out of play.

 

[brendy]

I would have played the ball after hitting it out onto the fairway. What do you do, wait for another group to come up and say its in..........If your playing partners say its in and you play the next shot...then thats it. IMHO

I agree, your fourball is there to assist in these situations, do you just keep hanging about until someone agrees if you get the wrong answer in your opinion to a decision?
If my fourball are unanimous than that is good enough for me (obviously they know the rules of golf reasonably).

 

[Colin L]

I've just been pointed towards this.

Strangely, the R&A rules only go up to 15/3, but this is 15/6 from the USGA version

From what's below, I think he would play his next shot with his provisional ball (which hadn't been picked up yet as it was much further away) and it would be his 6th?

Yes, it would be his 6th shot. 1 from the tee, 1 penalty stroke for OOB, stroke with provisional ball and 2 stroke penalty for playing a wrong ball. The stroke with the wrong ball does not count.

 

[Region3]

so as to clarify the facts,your playing in a 3 ball and you all agree the ball is in play after looking at the situation and position of the ball,BUT another group have decided to make the decision for you,firstly i would ask what has it to do with them because you had made the decision,and secondly were they infering you were cheating if so your 3 ball should have been DQ'D.

Facts?

I said I wasn't in the group.

The issue with the OOB is that it isn't all the way down the side of the hole, it starts shortly after a footbridge that crosses a stream.
The 3 players in the group concerned hadn't noticed another OOB stake a little further towards the stream so thought the ball was short of OOB.

The other group didn't make the decision. They pointed out the OOB stake that the first group hadn't seen, so then it was obvious that the ball played had been OOB.

They certainly weren't inferring that any cheating had been going on, because given the choice the player would have happily 'lost' his ball and taken the provisional. It wasn't as simple as playing to the fairway as in my original post but I was just trying to avoid over complicating the question unnecessarily.

If the other group don't say anything, they either report it afterwards or say nothing and allow the 'cheating' to go unnoticed.

If I unknowingly did something wrong or broke a rule and another group noticed, I'd always prefer they pointed it out to me.
Going down 6 today I noticed someone teeing up on 5 from the yellow markers, so told him. He thanked me and moved the ball back and we had a laugh about it.

 

[duncan mackie]

a good example of why it's so important to be comfortable using 3-3 in competitions, to avoid uncertainty, unpleasantness etc

only someone authorised by the committee to make a ruling on the course can provide you with certainty as a player in strokeplay - your playing partners can't, and frequently you will find that one (who on the course says nothing, or little) will have a word with someone when they get back in to satisfy their own interest for the future - and before you know it you find yourself DQ for returning a wrong score...

so, taking this case as an example, as soon as you are uncertain about the marking of the OOB relative to your ball, you tell your playing partners that you wish to invoke 3-3 and which ball you wish to count. When you now play out the hole with both the one that was OOB, and the other that you played from the tee, you will not have the additional 2 shot penalty for playing a wrong ball as and when a committee rule on the original ball being OOB. You need to report to the committee when you get back in - if no-one is available the club should have procedures in place ie put an explanation in with your card etc You should sort it out before you return the card.

It may seem complex and extra effort, but I'll guarantee that over time it will actually save time as well and enabling play and resolution without emotion!

 

[williamalex1]

Did the player finish the hole with the ball that was OOB. or did he play out with his pro/ball after being informed . OOB is always OOB. no waving of rules , Tv or spectators can report you and your d/s.

 

[Region3]

Did the player finish the hole with the ball that was OOB. or did he play out with his pro/ball after being informed . OOB is always OOB. no waving of rules , Tv or spectators can report you and your d/s.

Once the other group had pointed out the OOB stake that the first group had missed, the player picked up the OOB ball and continued with the provisional.

 

[freddielong]

It is a tough one as it is a decision that should be made in his group, the problem being that this is then open to abuse. how did they get it wrong initially to then all agree was there a stake that they could not see that once pointed was obvious. If its not clearly marked then its a straight line between the stakes that you can see it should not be obscure.

I dont think the other group were interfereing if they see a clear rules breach, they were not adviseing on play or course of action so thats ok if they left it and reported it afterwards it would have been a DQ for the guy, the penalty is as stated but I am amazed they could get it wrong.

 

[duncan mackie]

It is a tough one as it is a decision that should be made in his group, the problem being that this is then open to abuse.

I don't think you have worded this quite the way you intended (from the rest of the post!).

It's a decision that should be capable of being made correctly by the group - but it's not the groups decision to make.

In the absence of a referee, any dispute or doubtful point on the Rules must be referred to the Committee, whose decision is final.

Once the discussion started here within the group any failure by the player to comply with the rules will remain open to review in light of the facts as known, until the committee have ruled.

As the crux of your post, it really shouldn't be open to any interpretation on the course - more and bigger white stakes are clearly required!