Perceived forgiveness.

[kid2]

Just having read through TomC's post on the S55's I see a lot of people saying that they think they mane a bit too muchi club for them......

Now each and everyone to their own but is this not what manufacturers are pushing so that they can seek specific target clubs to a specific side of the market.....
I'm more from the camp that of you spend enough to.e with something then you'll eventually learn to make it work.....

Surely every club has forgiveness built into it.... I know from my own experience that if I catch a ball a little out towards the toe it won't fly as far but its a rare ocurrance... And ill know from the sting.... Equally its the same with one a little thin..... I'm sure more people could hit those pings more than they think.

 

[One Planer]

Just having read through TomC's post on the S55's I see a lot of people saying that they think they mane a bit too muchi club for them......

Now each and everyone to their own but is this not what manufacturers are pushing so that they can seek specific target clubs to a specific side of the market.....
I'm more from the camp that of you spend enough to.e with something then you'll eventually learn to make it work.....

Surely every club has forgiveness built into it.... I know from my own experience that if I catch a ball a little out towards the toe it won't fly as far but its a rare ocurrance... And ill know from the sting.... Equally its the same with one a little thin..... I'm sure more people could hit those pings more than they think.

I agree 100% with this My view on this is if you get it into your head you can hit a specific club/set of irons, you've already lost.

I started to play MP32's off 18, dropped to 16. Moving from GI irons.

I then switched to MP63's. Wne from 16 to 14.

I may go out and buy a set of MP69's and see if I can get to 10 :rofl:

Joking aside. A friend of mine has the Ping Anser forged, previously had the S56, no issues hitting these either.

 

[Junior]

Interesting post and I agree. Golf can be more about how good your bad shots are. Clubs dont need t be fogiving if you it them out of the screws all the time.

 

[duncan mackie]

do you mean forgivingness?

whilst all my clubs live permenantly in the state of having been forgiven, this definitely isn't the case with some golfers - but is more to do with the golfer than the clubs

 

[pendodave]

re. spending the time to get to use a club.

For most people, golf practice time is a finite (and often limited) resource. If you're spending time getting your irons working, you're not spending it on getting your chipping or putting working better. Wonder which would be most likely to reduce your scores ??

re. "forgiveness". This is a somewhat nebulous concept. The only example I've come across where someone has tried to measure it is the Maltby playability index. He has identified what he believes to be the key components of forgiveness (which I guess are open to debate) and then measures those parameters in a workshop and assigns an overall value to a club. Even if you don't agree with the specifics, the results can make 'interesting' reading if you like that kind of thing.

I would imagine that most of us make imperfect strikes most of the time. If more forgiving clubs go more nearly to the same place as well struck shots than less forgiving clubs, why wouldn't a handicap golfer seek them out ?

 

[Alex1975]

Why though? Why not take the forgiveness? what is the trade off?

Go on say it... "more workability"

If you can work the ball you can work it with a G25 or an MP-4. If that's the case then its all about looks. I think looks are VERY important but beating up my brother in law on the course is more important.

I am aware of what a hypocrite I look... Just playing devils advocate.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

I came back into the game last year with some old Mizuno Pro II blades. It became apparent that whilst I was getting my swing back these were going to be hard work. I switched to some ultra forgiving ping G5's which got me enjoying it again before going back to some more bladed s59's once I felt comfortable swinging a club again. All of the above were great when I hit it out of the middle, but the G5's really did help when I didn't strike it quite right.

The Rocketblade tours I've got now seem to be the best of all the above. When I catch it out of the middle, it goes where I want it to and with whichever shape I intend (usually a slice ). But when I catch it a bit thin, or a bit out of the toe, I still get good distance and the ball often ends up almost as close as if I'd have hit a great strike.

I'm maybe not the biggest 'purist' but would prefer to see my handicap coming down with a few mis-hits, as opposed to not actually scoring any better but hitting it a bit more flush. The way I see it, the more I play, the better I'll get, the more I'll hit it out of the middle which makes the forgiveness less relevant. But, until then, I'm perfectly happy to get a bit of a helping hand from technology.

 

[garyinderry]

"the JPX-825 is the ultimate combination of amazing distance, extreme forgiveness, and great feel that will help you play better, more consistent golf today."

im in portugal playing golf atm. ive rented mizuno jpx 825 irons. not really getting on with them to be honest. ive found that they really do have a hot face. the ball just springs off the face on small green side chips. ive airmailed greens quite a few times with them. i would say the one thing they do not allow is for consistent distances.

give me some forged offerings any day. i shot 7over yesterday in case anyone thinks im just looking for an excuse for poor golf (by my standards)

 

[Foxholer]

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve imo.

I've never owned GI clubs, though I've hit plenty. I've found I'm a good enough ball striker to use 'players' irons and the current combos are probably my optimum set-up. If I was playing for a living, I'd probably go for more forgiving ones. When I first bought some blades (TP9s from the original AG shop in Warrington) to practice with, a Pro, who also used the range, was using Callaway X-somethings. He stated he wanted as much forgiveness as poss.

I don't really try to shape shots unless really necessary.

As for built in forgiveness, that's another term that needs definition. Blades don't need to be unforgiving - I found the Muiras Blades I had easier to hit than their CB201s off links fairways, but get into some juicy parkland rough and an 8-iron is the most that can be used compared to the CBs 6 or 5. Flight is also something that needs to be considered. With blades, the CoG is relatively high for lower flight while GIs have lower CoG in order to get the ball airborne.

When I'm very old, I'll search out some Cally Hawkeyes to use. They are as forgiving as anyone needs and go miles! There may be a halfway stage of MX23/25, but as a recreational golfer with nothing really to prove, I'm happy with the slightly less forgiving, but more responsive irons I have.

 

[tsped83]

I think, regardless of ability, if you have the cash and the desire to hit blades S55's or whatever, then go for it. However, the foremost reason I play golf is because I enjoy it. So if a set (G20s for me) which may not look the best, but makes me look better when I thin/fat/toe/heel it, then that's what I'm going to use.

I want as much help as possible when playing, and GI irons do that on abundance.

 

[duncan mackie]

do you mean forgivingness?

whilst all my clubs live permenantly in the state of having been forgiven, this definitely isn't the case with some golfers - but is more to do with the golfer than the clubs

I couldn't believe that Mizuno's marketing department would also be using the wrong word, as implied in another post in this thread - but they do......many many times.

Amazing - it's a word more appropriate to conflict resolution, reconciliation and victim support than the marketing of golf equipment!

 

[Region3]

When I learnt to play I had blades smaller and thinner than the MP-69's I use now. I'm sure if GI irons were about then (about 3 or 4 years before I saw a Ping Eye iron) I would have improved my scores quicker, but wouldn't be as good a ball striker as I became.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I would rather know about it and not get as good a result when I make a bad contact.
If I'm playing to put food on the table then give me all the help you can, but while I'm only playing it for fun - where's the fun in getting a good result out of a bad process? Just the way I am.

Although people differ, I think I learn better and improve by being 'forced' to get somewhere near the middle of the club to get a decent result. I tend to 'only do enough' when playing sports, so would get lazy if I didn't need a good contact to get a good result.

How many people use the bumper bars at the bowling alley?

I know it's not the same, but that's an extreme example of the way I think.

 

[Imurg]

All I know on this subject is that when I had MP58's ( pretty bladey) I had to have my A game to get the best from them. If I wasn't swinging well it could get embarressing.
I switched to "Players cavity backs"(whatever they are..) in Cally s RazrX Tour and hit the sweetspot more often, hit the ball better and scored better.
Switched to the Orka's( not as bladey but not far off) and once again found myself in need of an A game. I've now got a 2nd hand set of AP2's and I'm back finding the sweetspot, scoring better and enjoying it more....
I think I'll just stick to what works from now on..

 

[Robobum]

Is there any factual info into how far from the sweet spot you have to stray before getting a discernible loss in power?

I had ping eye 2s - and I can't say that 4i was any easier or harder to hit than my mp60.

 

[Region3]

All I know on this subject is that when I had MP58's ( pretty bladey) I had to have my A game to get the best from them. If I wasn't swinging well it could get embarressing.
I switched to "Players cavity backs"(whatever they are..) in Cally s RazrX Tour and hit the sweetspot more often, hit the ball better and scored better.
Switched to the Orka's( not as bladey but not far off) and once again found myself in need of an A game. I've now got a 2nd hand set of AP2's and I'm back finding the sweetspot, scoring better and enjoying it more....
I think I'll just stick to what works from now on..

But are you really finding the sweet spot again, or do the clubs just not make it matter whether you do or not?

 

[Imurg]

But are you really finding the sweet spot again, or do the clubs just not make it matter whether you do or not?

Honestly couldn't tell you Gary - all I know is I'm playing better with PCB's than with "bladeyness"

To be fair, even on a G20 you'll know if you've missed the middle of the bat. It might not make much difference to the outcome but you'll still know.

 

[ger147]

But are you really finding the sweet spot again, or do the clubs just not make it matter whether you do or not?

The sweet spot is bigger on GI clubs and so is easier to find more of the time, certainly for average players like me.

 

[Alex1975]

Is there any factual info into how far from the sweet spot you have to stray before getting a discernible loss in power?

I had ping eye 2s - and I can't say that 4i was any easier or harder to hit than my mp60.

http://www.ralphmaltby.com/

The above is the only scale I have ever been able to find.

 

[Robobum]

http://www.ralphmaltby.com/

The above is the only scale I have ever been able to find.

Not sure I understand much of that - but it seems odd that what seem to be blades have a better "forgiveness rating" than certain clubs with a cavity in the same manufacturers' range?

Or have I read that wrong!!??

 

[patricks148]

I’ll give you an example of what I perceive as forgiveness.

Played a few holes last night and on the 17th had 145 yards to go to the flag for my approach to the green. I nailed an 8 iron (or thought I did) it landed right where I was aimed and slightly pin high to about 5 feet. Looked at the mark on the club and it was … lets say closer to the toe than the middle.