Penalty shots or not???

[Simbo]

Playing the club 72 holer at the weekend. Going along so-so, not great not terrible when I got to the 9th. Par 4, Hit my putt for a 3 from maybe 15 feet or so, shaved the hole and finished about maybe 6" the other side of the cup, so I walked up and as the putt was so close I never even bothered to set up/take a backswing, so the putter wasn't grounded. just went to knock it in the hole, as the putter was moving forward the ball moved, must have rolled into a spike mark or something. My eye seen it and I tried to stop the putter but wasn't quick enough, which resulted in me hitting the ball but because I had tried to stop it just nudged the ball, didn't hit it hard enough for it to go in the hole. I penalised myself 2 shots for it. Some of the guys reckon because the ball moved while I was in the middle of my swing its not a penalty.

Was i Right or wrong??

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Some of the guys reckon because the ball moved while I was in the middle of my swing its not a penalty.

That would have been my take on it.

 

[guest100718]

but you did hit it. I would say it's 1 shot pen, replace ball and carry on.

 

[Imurg]

If you didn't cause the ball to move then you play it as it lies don't you....?

Which, effectively, is what you did......

So no penalty...?

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Rule 18-2

If the ball is moved, it must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

 

[guest100718]

He went on to hit the ball unintentionally so I think it should be replaced under penalty and retaken.

 

[duncan mackie]

this is a slightly complex situation, and I will break it down for ease of understanding overall. The working premise is that

1. the ball wasn't addressed
2. the ball started moving during the swing
3. it is known, or virtually certain, that the player didn't cause it to move (you didn't touch anything!)
4. you cannot know that the ball has come finally come to rest before completing the stroke, even if that's the impression you get.

because of 1. we know that 18-2b is not applicable (the player isn't deemed to have caused it to move because he hasn't addressed (defn.) it. we also know that 18-1 doesn't apply because the player didn't cause it to move.

because of 2 the applicable rule becomes 14-5; Playing a moving ball. This would create a penalty, but contains the following exception - When the ball begins to move only after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of his club for the stroke, he incurs no penalty under this Rule for playing a moving ball, but he is not exempt from any penalty under the following Rules: Ball at rest moved by player – Rule 18-2a Ball at rest moving after address – Rule 18-2b
As we have already ruled out these two there is no penalty applicable..........

But we then have another issue "I tried to stop the putter but wasn't quick enough, which resulted in me hitting the ball but because I had tried to stop it just nudged the ball"

A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he has not made a stroke.
14-5/1.5 tells us that if you had managed to miss the ball you would not have made a stroke, and would have simply 'gone again' - you would not replace the ball because you didn't cause it to move! You would have no penalties. Because you hit the ball, despite checking your downswing, you are deemed to have made a stroke. Therefore the stroke counts and you play the ball from it's new postion.

 

[Colin L]

Glad you got in first, Duncan. I need the time to get on with some gardening this morning.

 

[USER1999]

But if you didn't intend to hit the ball, and then did, is it not ball moved by player or players equipment. Then the ball needs to be replaced under penalty, to the position it was in before you struck.it?

 

[Colin L]

But if you didn't intend to hit the ball, and then did, is it not ball moved by player or players equipment. Then the ball needs to be replaced under penalty, to the position it was in before you struck.it?

I haven't reached the garden yet!

You are right that if you hit your ball without the intention of doing so eg with a a practice swing, you are penalised under 18-2 for causing your ball to move and must replace it. In the OP's situation, however, he did mean to hit the ball: he was making a forward movement of the club with the intention of hitting the ball, therefore a stroke. But exceptionally, it is not a stroke if you check that movement by stopping or diverting your downswing for some reason - provided you don't hit the ball. If you do, it counts as a stroke.

Definition of a stroke and Decision 14/1.5 refer.

 

[Foxholer]

To add...

Best to mark it as 'possible penalty' for ruling before signing the card.

And play a second ball using the 'other option' where there is any doubt over some procedures. In this case, 2 second balls may have been required - whether to replace at original position (No) and whether to hole out from where mis-cue finished(Yes). There is some announcement and selection details to bear in mind too.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=3&subRuleNum=3

 

[pogle]

To add...

Best to mark it as 'possible penalty' for ruling before signing the card.

And play a second ball using the 'other option' where there is any doubt over some procedures. In this case, 2 second balls may have been required - whether to replace at original position (No) and whether to hole out from where mis-cue finished(Yes). There is some announcement and selection details to bear in mind too.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=3&subRuleNum=3

There is no provision under rule 3-3 to play two second balls, you can only play one second ball. If you do this, then the score with the original or first ball played counts. Decision 3-3/10 applies.