Penalty shot for OOB.

Baldy Bouncer

Baldy Bouncer

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This question came up at the weekend and was asked by my PP.

Why do you receive a penalty shot for going OOB?

What`s the reasoning behind it?

You haven`t gained any yardage whatsoever, but you`re penalised a shot!

Why can`t we be playing our 2nd shot from the Tee instead of our 3rd? As an example.

I think Monty raised this question a few years ago with the R&A, didn`t he?

My PP and myself couldn`t think of a valid reason why a penalty shot is immediately added to your score.

Can any of the Rules Guys enlighten us?




Oops posted in wrong section, Mods please move:o
 
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Baldy Bouncer said:
This question came up at the weekend and was asked by my PP.

Why do you receive a penalty shot for going OOB?

What`s the reasoning behind it?

You haven`t gained any yardage whatsoever, but you`re penalised a shot!

Why can`t we be playing our 2nd shot from the Tee instead of our 3rd? As an example.

I think Monty raised this question a few years ago with the R&A, didn`t he?

My PP and myself couldn`t think of a valid reason why a penalty shot is immediately added to your score.

Can any of the Rules Guys enlighten us?




Oops posted in wrong section, Mods please move:o
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What else would you suggest? The golf course has to be bounded - you've hit your ball out of the field of play - the penalty shot is simply enforcing stroke and distance. If there was no penalty there would be no risk with you hitting your ball over OOB to gain an advantage (for example on a right angle dog-leg with OoB in the inside of the dog leg). And sometimes an internal OoB is there for safety sake.

And often you'll have a choice of (tee) shot. Go for it risking OoB and you might gain a big advantage compared with playing safe. Take away the shot penalty and you are just having another go - and as we know from provisionals they often result in the 'perfect' shot. Just part of the risk reward aspect of golf.
 
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It's not actually an unreasonable question! And there are many that would like to treat OOB the same as a Lateral Water Hazard - 1 shot and drop within 2CL of last crossing point - in order to speed up play! But it seems to me that OOB and Lost Ball are serious 'fouls' that should result in reasonably harsh penalties. Stroke and Distance seems appropriate to me.

And if you've hit it so badly that it is OOB or Lost, it should get a more severe penalty than hitting into a 'planned trap' such as a Water Hazard. Your suggestion would make it less of a penalty than for hitting into such a hazard imo!
 
Stroke and Distance for OOB was in the first written rules in 1744 (I can only just remember them).

In 1950 it became distance only but back to stroke and distance in 1952.

For 4 years from 1842 the penalty was 3 strokes and distance.
 
Baldy Bouncer said:
None!

I just want to know why a penalty shot is added immediately to your score when you`ve gained absolutely diddly squat!
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You've gained the ability to complete the hole/round! That's a considerable benefit when you consider the penalty for not doing so!
 
Baldy Bouncer said:
None!

I just want to know why a penalty shot is added immediately to your score when you`ve gained absolutely diddly squat!
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...but, for example, you might have been attempting to gain a distinct advantage by playing over OoB and there are many reasons for there being OoB (never mind boundary of the course) - reasons often including the safety of others - either within the 'grounds' of the golf course or the public beyond the OoB.

There is nothing stopping you from playing over or 'through' an OoB (other than a LR and sometimes you will find these) but you do so accepting the risk-reward penalty. Being given another go with no penalty if you mess it up is no real deterrent.

OoB is OoB - you cannot differentiate between going accidentally OoB, and deliberately playing over or through an OoB and it going wrong.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...but, for example, you might have been attempting to gain a distinct advantage by playing over OoB and there are many reasons for there being OoB (never mind boundary of the course) - reasons often including the safety of others - either within the 'grounds' of the golf course or the public beyond the OoB.

There is nothing stopping you from playing over or 'through' an OoB (other than a LR and sometimes you will find these) but you do so accepting the risk-reward penalty. Being given another go with no penalty if you mess it up is no real deterrent.

OoB is OoB - you cannot differentiate between going accidentally OoB, and deliberately playing over or through an OoB and it going wrong.
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I dont get this, of course theres still a risk youre playing 2 from the tee rather than from 200 yds or so up the fairway

The question for me is why is it stroke AND distance ie double penalty rather than being stroke (as per water hazards) or distance as per ops thoughts
 
The OP just asked a question guys ..IF YA DONT KNOW , ASK ..

I guess its just a penalty for a bad shot really & as some say a deterrent in some cases , Like most rules even the ones that seem sill , they were introduced for a reason at the time (what ever that reason may be )

I don't have a definitive answer to your question tho
 
fundy said:
I dont get this, of course theres still a risk youre playing 2 from the tee rather than from 200 yds or so up the fairway

The question for me is why is it stroke AND distance ie double penalty rather than being stroke (as per water hazards) or distance as per ops thoughts
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Thank you Fundy, someone on my wavelength, unlike SILH (you`re not LP in disguise are you.lol)
 
Baldy Bouncer said:
Thank you Fundy, someone on my wavelength, unlike SILH (you`re not LP in disguise are you.lol)
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Indeed - and it's nothing to do with risk reward.

You need to look at the relationship between a found ball playable, an unplayable one and a lost ball - with consideration for both hazards and rough situations.

Example - you hit your ball 20 yards right of the fairway into almost unplayable rough (those from the parkland world might not comprehend this concept - those based at Gullane in summer will!). Just a little further over is an OOB wall.
If you don't find it its 3 off the tee, if you find it and decide it's unplayable it's 3 of the tee (as the tee option), if you either did manage to lose it OOB or (bizarrely) claim KVC it's lost OOB you wish to be able to replay for 2...It all gets a little out of balance.

Whilst you may feel that all this does is open the issue of S&D for lost ball as well; it's really the relationship with unplayable options rather that lost that drives things.
 
duncan mackie said:
Indeed - and it's nothing to do with risk reward.

You need to look at the relationship between a found ball playable, an unplayable one and a lost ball - with consideration for both hazards and rough situations.

Example - you hit your ball 20 yards right of the fairway into almost unplayable rough (those from the parkland world might not comprehend this concept - those based at Gullane in summer will!). Just a little further over is an OOB wall.
If you don't find it its 3 off the tee, if you find it and decide it's unplayable it's 3 of the tee (as the tee option), if you either did manage to lose it OOB or (bizarrely) claim KVC it's lost OOB you wish to be able to replay for 2...It all gets a little out of balance.

Whilst you may feel that all this does is open the issue of S&D for lost ball as well; it's really the relationship with unplayable options rather that lost that drives things.
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Which all makes sense...

But begs a supplementary question of what might have been the rationale for the brief period of distance only that Rosecott mentioned. (Presumably not a very good one if it only lasted two years?)
 
duncan mackie said:
Indeed - and it's nothing to do with risk reward.

You need to look at the relationship between a found ball playable, an unplayable one and a lost ball - with consideration for both hazards and rough situations.

Example - you hit your ball 20 yards right of the fairway into almost unplayable rough (those from the parkland world might not comprehend this concept - those based at Gullane in summer will!). Just a little further over is an OOB wall.
If you don't find it its 3 off the tee, if you find it and decide it's unplayable it's 3 of the tee (as the tee option), if you either did manage to lose it OOB or (bizarrely) claim KVC it's lost OOB you wish to be able to replay for 2...It all gets a little out of balance.

Whilst you may feel that all this does is open the issue of S&D for lost ball as well; it's really the relationship with unplayable options rather that lost that drives things.
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Cheers for that Duncan........another sensible answer.:cheers:
 
I understand the need for a penalty stroke, but I have to agree the distance part seems a little OTT. OOB should just be the same as a water hazard IMHO, but it ain't so that's that.
 
Foxholer said:
It's not actually an unreasonable question! And there are many that would like to treat OOB the same as a Lateral Water Hazard - 1 shot and drop within 2CL of last crossing point - in order to speed up play! But it seems to me that OOB and Lost Ball are serious 'fouls' that should result in reasonably harsh penalties. Stroke and Distance seems appropriate to me.

And if you've hit it so badly that it is OOB or Lost, it should get a more severe penalty than hitting into a 'planned trap' such as a Water Hazard. Your suggestion would make it less of a penalty than for hitting into such a hazard imo!
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I agree with this. I think the only thing that is slightly harsh is that lateral water hazards are often in similar positions to OOB yet the penalty is different.

Not saying it should be changed though. It's just one of those things and it's right that leaving the boundaries of the course should carry a heavy punishment.
 
woody69 said:
I understand the need for a penalty stroke, but I have to agree the distance part seems a little OTT. OOB should just be the same as a water hazard IMHO, but it ain't so that's that.
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Try looking at it this way...

1. You have hit your ball off the course
2. You may or may not have hit your ball off the course but can't find it.
3. You have hit you ball into a hazard designed to influence you choice of shot (water or bunker).
4. Your ball comes to rest amongst the roots of a tree in the middle of the fairway (and is unplayable)

Then rank them in terms of penalty ie which should carry the bigger penalty and whether there should be any differential.

I have ranked them the way I see it - and the penalty and options are broadly in line.
 
duncan mackie said:
Indeed - and it's nothing to do with risk reward.

You need to look at the relationship between a found ball playable, an unplayable one and a lost ball - with consideration for both hazards and rough situations.

Example - you hit your ball 20 yards right of the fairway into almost unplayable rough (those from the parkland world might not comprehend this concept - those based at Gullane in summer will!). Just a little further over is an OOB wall.
If you don't find it its 3 off the tee, if you find it and decide it's unplayable it's 3 of the tee (as the tee option), if you either did manage to lose it OOB or (bizarrely) claim KVC it's lost OOB you wish to be able to replay for 2...It all gets a little out of balance.

Whilst you may feel that all this does is open the issue of S&D for lost ball as well; it's really the relationship with unplayable options rather that lost that drives things.
Click to expand...

I quite understand the logic of this and it is quite obvious the basis for why it's 3 off the tee for OoB - but that is the logic for the penalty being 3 off the tee. I still hanker for my risk-reward being perhaps a lesser but still valid reason for the additional penalty for going out of bounds. But your logic I accept trumps my reason :)
 
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