Out of date Garmin Golf Maps. Disappointed at Garmins response

LinksTurf

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Hi folks. I got a nice new Garmin S1 GPS watch for Xmas from my daughter. I downloaded the "latest" maps and was a little surprised on going to my home course (Carnoustie Buddon) to discover that the maps did not reflect the movement of a green by 67 yards in March 2013. The course has undergone further major changes including the introduction of 2 new holes at the start of this year and merging of others. This has also required renumbering of some as well. Garmin have still not remapped the course. Here is the latest of several emails to Garmin Golf.

"I contacted you via your web form requesting an update to the above named course on 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] JANUARY 2014. Your initial response suggested you would try and complete the update by April, but it has not even been included in the July update. I should be pleased if you could explain to me why you have not yet updated the course, and also tell me whether or not you are committed to having it included in your next update in October 2014? I have to say I am incredibly disappointed in Garmin. One of the holes on this course had its green moved 67 yards from your mapped position in March 2013 (17 months ago). Since the latest changes took effect earlier this year, your mapping is completely wrong on 12 of the 18 holes, rendering my Garmin device essentially useless, yet your company shows no urgency in providing a service to me or its other customers on this very, very busy course. Meantime, Skycaddie had this course remapped nearly 3 months ago, despite being told later than you were of the changes. I’m sure you can understand my disappointment that the whole of the golf season will have been completed with me being unable to take full advantage of my new Garmin watch."

Mostly Garmin Golf (based in the US) don't respond, but after persistent pressure from myself and their UK Customer Service team, eventually I got this.

"I cannot give an arbitrary time frame for when this course will be updated in our CourseView maps. We have a multiple reference process that we use to ensure accuracy and an updated product that we can be confident publishing. At this time we are unable to acquire all of the required data, and this lack of data is delaying the publication of an update for Carnoustie Buddon Golf Course.

I can certainly understand your frustration, but I also hope this explanation shows you our dedication and eagerness to get this course included as soon as possible. The next quarterly update is scheduled for October. Thank you for your persistence and your patience. I am sorry I cannot give a more conclusive response."

So basically, no clear explanation for the delay. All it requires is a guy to turn up with the right equipment and walk the course... or don't they do that? Where else are they getting this data they find so hard to collect? Also no commitment to have it sorted by October. I like my S1, but its only useful when I'm not on my home course. GPS devices are worthless with inaccurate and outdated maps. I contacted the guy who walks the courses in the UK for Skycaddie directly via Twitter in March, even though I don't have one. It was mapped 6 weeks later. Garmin only update in batches on a quarterly basis, whereas Skycaddie publish each individual new map as and when it becomes available, usually within a week of having been walked by the GPS guy. If my device breaks, you can be sure that my replacement won't be a Garmin!
 
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HomerJSimpson

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Pretty certain Sky Caddie are the only ones that map the course by walking it. My thought given their reply is perhaps they are waiting on some sort of response from the club to verify the new data is accurate or give permission of some description. Of course I might be wrong on all counts
 

CMAC

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Hi folks. I got a nice new Garmin S1 GPS watch for Xmas from my daughter. I downloaded the "latest" maps and was a little surprised on going to my home course (Carnoustie Buddon) to discover that the maps did not reflect the movement of a green by 67 yards in March 2013. The course has undergone further major changes including the introduction of 2 new holes at the start of this year and merging of others. This has also required renumbering of some as well. Garmin have still not remapped the course. Here is the latest of several emails to Garmin Golf.

"I contacted you via your web form requesting an update to the above named course on 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] JANUARY 2014. Your initial response suggested you would try and complete the update by April, but it has not even been included in the July update. I should be pleased if you could explain to me why you have not yet updated the course, and also tell me whether or not you are committed to having it included in your next update in October 2014? I have to say I am incredibly disappointed in Garmin. One of the holes on this course had its green moved 67 yards from your mapped position in March 2013 (17 months ago). Since the latest changes took effect earlier this year, your mapping is completely wrong on 12 of the 18 holes, rendering my Garmin device essentially useless, yet your company shows no urgency in providing a service to me or its other customers on this very, very busy course. Meantime, Skycaddie had this course remapped nearly 3 months ago, despite being told later than you were of the changes. I’m sure you can understand my disappointment that the whole of the golf season will have been completed with me being unable to take full advantage of my new Garmin watch."

Mostly Garmin Golf (based in the US) don't respond, but after persistent pressure from myself and their UK Customer Service team, eventually I got this.

"I cannot give an arbitrary time frame for when this course will be updated in our CourseView maps. We have a multiple reference process that we use to ensure accuracy and an updated product that we can be confident publishing. At this time we are unable to acquire all of the required data, and this lack of data is delaying the publication of an update for Carnoustie Buddon Golf Course.

I can certainly understand your frustration, but I also hope this explanation shows you our dedication and eagerness to get this course included as soon as possible. The next quarterly update is scheduled for October. Thank you for your persistence and your patience. I am sorry I cannot give a more conclusive response."

So basically, no clear explanation for the delay. All it requires is a guy to turn up with the right equipment and walk the course... or don't they do that? Where else are they getting this data they find so hard to collect? Also no commitment to have it sorted by October. I like my S1, but its only useful when I'm not on my home course. GPS devices are worthless with inaccurate and outdated maps. I contacted the guy who walks the courses in the UK for Skycaddie directly via Twitter in March, even though I don't have one. It was mapped 6 weeks later. Garmin only update in batches on a quarterly basis, whereas Skycaddie publish each individual new map as and when it becomes available, usually within a week of having been walked by the GPS guy. If my device breaks, you can be sure that my replacement won't be a Garmin!

They dont do that, been there got rid, got Skycaddie watch, night and day and only about £40 dearer than the 'pretty old tech' S1
 

LinksTurf

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I doubt that is the case Homer. I spoke to the Golf Services Manager back in March about other matters and raised this. I even sent Garmin an aerial photo of the changes provided by the links management. Carnoustie Buddon is part of the Carnoustie Golf Links that also looks after the Championship and Burnside Courses.They are very co-operative with any third parties who want information like this including scorecard updates for online scoretracking sites and certainly GPS mappers. Skycaddie got quick access. I think basically Garmin just don't commit the resources to mapping that Skycaddie do. I hope to god, Garmin are not waiting for Google Maps to update!!!
 
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LinksTurf

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They dont do that, been there got rid, got Skycaddie watch, night and day and only about £40 dearer than the 'pretty old tech' S1

S1 is fine for my needs WHEN the maps are accurate. Its been ok on the other courses I've played. I feel even more for those with more premium Garmin products as even on some the holes which haven't changed in length, hazards have been changed.
 

GB72

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I think they are. Skycaddie and I think now Golfbuddy walk the course. Everyone else uses google maps or similar
 

LinksTurf

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I think they are. Skycaddie and I think now Golfbuddy walk the course. Everyone else uses google maps or similar

Apparently Google update their satellite imagery (as opposed to maps or streetview) every 2 weeks. Even allowing for cloudy days, that still doesn't account for the delay. We have had a very good summer weather wise. If Garmin can't get the data when its sunny, good luck to them in the winter!

It's very disappointing to find that Garmin are reaping in money from people buying new devices, but are not interested in putting in the resources to get maps updated quickly and accurately. Not a good long term business model.
 

CMAC

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S1 is fine for my needs WHEN the maps are accurate. Its been ok on the other courses I've played. I feel even more for those with more premium Garmin products as even on some the holes which haven't changed in length, hazards have been changed.

I had an S1 and was 'delighted' with it, then started noticing yardage issues out by 5-10 rds compared to Skycaddie and then courses not updated so certain holes were way out.
 

LinksTurf

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Coincidentally, I've just had an email from them offering to lend me the equipment to walk the course and map it myself...seriously!

1. I'm happy to do it to get this done and out of the way.
2. Suggests they DO have the equipment required to walk the course which makes the delay even more curious!
 

GB72

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Certainly if I invest in a GPS device in the future I will ask the club manager which, if any, companies have booked in to walk the course and how recently they have done it. I have never seen anyone walking our course but I would suspect it is all done mid week and off peek hours.
 

CMAC

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So you sold it to me! LOL

but it works perfectly though doesnt it, they all are slightly out due to the way Garmin use the maps. I tried a few weeks without one and enjoyed it, but started hankering after knowing a distance again, when Skycaddie said no subs now for the watch and a price drop via my pro it was a no brainer
 

LinksTurf

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Don't think they do - there are changes to Monifieth that were done last year that are still old version on satellite view

My understanding is the raw data is updated fortnightly. That doesn't mean the maps are updated fortnightly because the raw data needs to be processed and they do that much less often, presumably for cost reasons. Cloud cover and other adverse weather also means that many of the data runs are unusable.
 

Foxholer

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I think they are. Skycaddie and I think now Golfbuddy walk the course. Everyone else uses google maps or similar

On their website, Snooper claim to walk the courses.

I've certainly seen a non-SkyCaddy guy out mapping somewhere. Can't remember who he was from, but it wasn't any of the above, nor Garmin.

As for the OP. I'd suggest you take them up on their offer to let you map the changes for them!
 
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