One thing….

Depreston

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You might want to listen to Mark Broadie. He does a good interview on the Sweet spot podcast. He 'invented' the strokes gained thing.
Completely debunks the myth of 'drive for show putt for dough'. The greatest loss of shots is from the driver. I've always known that but hearing it it a rational argument makes me feel better.
He also points out that the pros ain't as good as we think they are.

We beat ourselves up for being rubbish at the game because we compare ourselves to what we see on the TV. The TV shows the best shots so we think they're doing that all the time. I think this is the one thing I wish I knew when I started.
Yeah tv coverage always follows the leaders who are on fire, so they’re holing 15 footers or getting up and down from anywhere and when they’re not showing the leaders they’ll cut to someone in the field who has holed a raker for birdie or eagle

Featured group coverage can be very interesting if it has someone who is struggling Spieth a few times last year was a very interesting watch for example
 

BiMGuy

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Yeah tv coverage always follows the leaders who are on fire, so they’re holing 15 footers or getting up and down from anywhere and when they’re not showing the leaders they’ll cut to someone in the field who has holed a raker for birdie or eagle

Featured group coverage can be very interesting if it has someone who is struggling Spieth a few times last year was a very interesting watch for example
When you look at the averages for the PGA tour, it brings into sharp focus how out of touch with reality most of us are with our own expectations.

On average a PGA Tour pro has a 50/50 chance of holing an 8ft putt. Yet we get annoyed when we miss from further away. Or when we don't hit it stone dead from 100 yards.

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When you look at the averages for the PGA tour, it brings into sharp focus how out of touch with reality most of us are with our own expectations.

On average a PGA Tour pro has a 50/50 chance of holing an 8ft putt. Yet we get annoyed when we miss from further away. Or when we don't hit it stone dead from 100 yards.
The putting stats are misleading. I'd imagine a PGA Tour pro would be much better than 50/50 from 8ft on your standard UK green.
 

clubchamp98

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GIR isn't the most helpful stat for the reason you point out, and people are beginning to phase it out of their thinking. You could miss by an inch or 60 feet and it's still a missed green. Both very, very different shots.
Yes but by missing by one inch they mainly two putt but one of those putts dosnt count so putting stats are skewed.
But we can say that about any stats.
 

Orikoru

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Yes but by missing by one inch they mainly two putt but one of those putts dosnt count so putting stats are skewed.
But we can say that about any stats.
Recording our own stats we can just allow for that though. If I'm two inches off the green in the fringe, and it takes me three to get down, I'm going to record that as hitting the green and having three putts. If I do it the technically correct way and say missed green and two putts, it just hides what the problem was.
 

Liverbirdie

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2 for me:-

1. club up. How may times in a year are you short, compared to through the back of a green, allied to most hazards are nearer front of greens.

2. get your puts to/past the hole as an average, forgive the 3 putts coming back, dont forgive the 3 putts going short.

See you in 5 shots. ;)
 

sunshine

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I think the guys with really good putting stats are the ones just missing the green.
They chip/ putt close and hole out. = 1 putt green but it could be for bogey or worse.
Those stats don’t tell the truth really
But fairway off the tee equals more GIR .
They are both very important imo.
You are referring to GIR - a stat not used on tour any more.
 

sunshine

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2 for me:-

1. club up. How may times in a year are you short, compared to through the back of a green, allied to most hazards are nearer front of greens.

2. get your puts to/past the hole as an average, forgive the 3 putts coming back, dont forgive the 3 putts going short.

See you in 5 shots. ;)
1. This is a good point, but the penalty for going long is usually much worse than being short, so it is usually sensible to err on the short side.

2. Totally agree, rolling putts past the hole is a big focus for me too.
 

sunshine

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When you look at the averages for the PGA tour, it brings into sharp focus how out of touch with reality most of us are with our own expectations.

On average a PGA Tour pro has a 50/50 chance of holing an 8ft putt. Yet we get annoyed when we miss from further away. Or when we don't hit it stone dead from 100 yards.

View attachment 38786
That is a great share - thank you.

Key take aways for me:
- I'm a bit hard on myself on proximity to the hole for pitches from 60-100 yards.
- I'm surprised the stats for 180 show only 64% greens hit, I thought the pros were better.
- It's so impressive when you look at the stats towards the bottom - hitting the green 27% of the time from 240!
 

DRW

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The putting stats are misleading. I'd imagine a PGA Tour pro would be much better than 50/50 from 8ft on your standard UK green.
Agreed, its one of the things that strikes me about playing the 'harder' courses.

At a guess at about 3-5 foot, I sink more putts than I miss at my home course(flattish easy green complexs). Goto a harder green complex course like Saunton East and I miss more than I sink and get up/down alot less.

The pros are brilliant at sinking those kind of putts.
 

Backache

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The putting stats are misleading. I'd imagine a PGA Tour pro would be much better than 50/50 from 8ft on your standard UK green.
We would probably be worse on their greens, but I don't think it's necessarily true that they would be better on UK club greens than their own.
They are very much accustomed to the speed of their greens and importantly they run a lot truer, so there will be fewer misses due to imperfections on the putting surface.
 

Springveldt

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I think the guys with really good putting stats are the ones just missing the green.
They chip/ putt close and hole out. = 1 putt green but it could be for bogey or worse.
Those stats don’t tell the truth really
But fairway off the tee equals more GIR .
They are both very important imo.
Greens in regulation isn't a great stat imho as it doesn't take into account how far you missed by or even how big the green is.

The best putters judged by Strokes Gained are the best putters as each putt is accounted for. A 2 foot putt isn't counted the same as an 8 foot putt. It's doesn't matter if you miss the green and chip it to 2 foot, the putt would still be a net 0 strokes gained for putting as everyone on the PGA tour is expected to make them. Chipping to 8 feet and holing the putt would be a 0.5 strokes gained as an 8 foot putt is 50/50 on the PGA Tour.
 

Springveldt

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The putting stats are misleading. I'd imagine a PGA Tour pro would be much better than 50/50 from 8ft on your standard UK green.
You would be surprised. Broadie said that even with the best putters the percentages didn't change that much if it was uphill, downhill, left or right. It was only when the slopes were extreme and the greens were ridiculously quick that it changed to be anything statistically significant.

I'm not convinced it would be that much better tbh.
 

clubchamp98

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We would probably be worse on their greens, but I don't think it's necessarily true that they would be better on UK club greens than their own.
They are very much accustomed to the speed of their greens and importantly they run a lot truer, so there will be fewer misses due to imperfections on the putting surface.
This is true.
We play in Florida a bit and at first we struggle with the speed of the greens.
But after a few rounds you get used to it, it’s much easier as you only need to stroke the ball.
In the UK you can be malleting it and still be short.
 

clubchamp98

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Recording our own stats we can just allow for that though. If I'm two inches off the green in the fringe, and it takes me three to get down, I'm going to record that as hitting the green and having three putts. If I do it the technically correct way and say missed green and two putts, it just hides what the problem was.
Won’t that show your irons are better than they are if you just say you hit the green when you didn’t?
Seems counter productive
 
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If you could say one thing that changed your game for the better, a eureka moment almost, what would it be for you….

I haven’t got one hence asking the question and maybe it will help others 😀
Mine is completing the backswing. Means I make a full shoulder turn, and my transition and downswing is a lot smoother, rather than a short snatchy backswing and swinging too fast in the downswing.
 
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