No play penalty area?

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We have a dried up lake that is still a penalty area but with the new rules it effectively isn't (grounding club, removing lose impediments etc.). Is it possible to have a no play area in a penalty area such that even if you find your ball, you must take the penalty to get it out? It would make the hole play more like it was intended to if the hole was full of water. What other options might be available in this situation?
Thanks
 

RRidges

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Yes. Temporary Local Rule can declare it as a No play Penalty Area. Rule 17.1.e would then apply.
 

rulie

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Yes. Temporary Local Rule can declare it as a No play Penalty Area. Rule 17.1.e would then apply.
It doesn't require a "temporary Local Rule", the Committee in charge of the course can simply deem that penalty area to be a No Play Zone, meaning that if a player's ball is in that area, the player must not play the ball and must take penalty area relief.
 
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Thanks all, that seems quite clear that it is allowed :) Now a supplementary question, how does it get marked as a no-play zone (especially if it does not need to be a local rule)?
 
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OK, I was being lazy with that last question, I found the definition of no play zone and it states:

"The Committee should define the edge of a no play zone with a line or stakes, and the line or stakes (or the tops of those stakes) should identify the no play zone as different than a regular abnormal course condition or penalty area that does not contain a no play zone."

So I guess we can paint the top of the existing stakes with a different colour. Some examples on Google suggest Green is common, though I suspect that is not suitable for those that are red/green colour blind (indeed, red stakes are not the best choice in the first place). I wonder if Blue would be a good choice, yellow would certainly be confusing.
 

Imurg

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OK, I was being lazy with that last question, I found the definition of no play zone and it states:

"The Committee should define the edge of a no play zone with a line or stakes, and the line or stakes (or the tops of those stakes) should identify the no play zone as different than a regular abnormal course condition or penalty area that does not contain a no play zone."

So I guess we can paint the top of the existing stakes with a different colour. Some examples on Google suggest Green is common, though I suspect that is not suitable for those that are red/green colour blind (indeed, red stakes are not the best choice in the first place). I wonder if Blue would be a good choice, yellow would certainly be confusing.
How about a nice strong pink..?:unsure:
Blue is for GUR isn't it..?
 

NearHull

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Our Local Rule

Any area of Ground Under Repair is a no play zone when encircled by a white line, and also identified with a blue stake. Complete relief must be taken under 16.1f.

I guess , if the OP‘s issue was at our club we would use a blue stake in the middle of the hazard area.
 

Slab

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A local course has some No Play Penalty areas on a few holes, cant recall if they use a diff colour stake or not, there are mandatory drop zone/s to continue play and noted on the scorecard to use them

the 'no play' is for environmental reasons. Areas of mangrove tress. They don't want folk entering to try & play or retrieve a ball and causing any kind of damage to the soil or the mangroves etc
 
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Can the OP clarify for me/us...

Were you wanting the the PA to be a No Play Zone only when it was dry & empty of water? (Because that's how I read the original post?)
 
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How about a nice strong pink..?:unsure:
Blue is for GUR isn't it..?
A bold Cerise perhaps :)
I was not aware of Blue being a colour for GUR (I've really only ever seen white lines with GUR written next to it.
There are some examples of Black topped stakes which I think might work.
 
Thread starter #12
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Can the OP clarify for me/us...

Were you wanting the the PA to be a No Play Zone only when it was dry & empty of water? (Because that's how I read the original post?)
It seems that it is now permanently dry and empty of water (unless we have biblical rains in which case it has small puddles in places, the bunkers at that point still have more water than the supposed hazard), so I was thinking of making it all of the time (until it ever gets repaired in which case we can go back to just plain red stakes).
 

RRidges

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It doesn't require a "temporary Local Rule", the Committee in charge of the course can simply deem that penalty area to be a No Play Zone, meaning that if a player's ball is in that area, the player must not play the ball and must take penalty area relief.
That's fine.
I was simply wondering how the committee would notify players of the No Play Zone. The LR seemed to be best, but iif simply deeming it a No Play Zone works, then fine.
 

Neilds

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Isn’t GUR free relief? If it is a penalty area surely it should be a penalty drop?
I have seen blue stakes been used before to mark a no play zone due to rare wildlife nesting in a section of trees.
 
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It seems that it is now permanently dry and empty of water (unless we have biblical rains in which case it has small puddles in places, the bunkers at that point still have more water than the supposed hazard), so I was thinking of making it all of the time (until it ever gets repaired in which case we can go back to just plain red stakes).
Ok. Ta.
 

jim8flog

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We just write NPZ on the posts. However where we have such areas (wild flower areas) the posts are white. We also have a local rule for clarity.
 

Swango1980

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Isn’t GUR free relief? If it is a penalty area surely it should be a penalty drop?
I have seen blue stakes been used before to mark a no play zone due to rare wildlife nesting in a section of trees.
If the NPZ is in a penalty area, then the player must take penalty relief (see Rule 17.1e)
 

salfordlad

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Isn’t GUR free relief? If it is a penalty area surely it should be a penalty drop?
I have seen blue stakes been used before to mark a no play zone due to rare wildlife nesting in a section of trees.
If the NPZ is in a penalty area, then the player must take penalty relief (see Rule 17.1e)
Not necessarily, depends on the configuration of the penalty area and the NPZ and the location of the ball. There is no requirement for the defined NPZ (PA) to match the dimensions of the PA itself. It is not unusual to have only part of the PA marked as a NPZ. If the player's ball is at rest in the PA but not the NPZ and there is swing or stance interference with the NPZ, there may be free relief from the NPZ in the PA - see 17.1e(2)
 

Swango1980

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Not necessarily, depends on the configuration of the penalty area and the NPZ and the location of the ball. There is no requirement for the defined NPZ (PA) to match the dimensions of the PA itself. It is not unusual to have only part of the PA marked as a NPZ. If the player's ball is at rest in the PA but not the NPZ and there is swing or stance interference with the NPZ, there may be free relief from the NPZ in the PA - see 17.1e(2)
I guess that is the issue when someone provides a brief summary response to a post of someone else. Neilds question, a good one, seemed to suggest they felt that if it was a NPZ, then the player would simply get free relief, thus not suffering from any penalty. My response was to simply state that this would not be the case, and I quoted 17.1e in case Neilds wanted to looked at the full detail of the rule. For ease of my summery, I simply referred to 17.1e(1) that says:

"When Ball Is In No Play Zone in Penalty Area. The player must take penalty relief under Rule 17.1d or 17.2"

Hopefully that would have cleared up their comment. Of course, if they slightly changed the scenario to ask "but what if" (as I sometimes do when I'm intrigued about an particular rule), then perhaps Part (2) of that rule might have been relevant.

Also, from the OPs question, I would have assumed they wanted the NPZ to match the dimensions of the PA.
 

rulefan

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A NPZ has to be a PA or GUR (AGC) or part of a PA or GUR (AGC). But the respective margins do not have to correspond.
An area may be part PA and part GUR and any part may contain a NPZ. But neither part has to be all NPZ.
 
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