NHS and waiting times.

[patricks148]

had to go to hospital for a scan this morning. appointment was 9.30 so turned up 5 mins early.

got shown where to sit down by the receptionist. waiting half an hour, then the Radiographer turns up at 10am. by this time there 6 people sat there. so asked what the hold up was as no one went in before me.

"we don't start till 10"

what the point in starting appointments at 9.30 then?

its little surprise the NHS is in crises with waiting times

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The other annoyance is that they will give a group of people the same time. You turn up at 9.30 and discover 10 other people with the same time, due to see the same person.

One of my biggest bugbears with the NHS is the complete lack of professionalism regarding timekeeping. Drives me nuts. Just because they may have all day, others don't. And breathe......

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

had to go to hospital for a scan this morning. appointment was 9.30 so turned up 5 mins early.

got shown where to sit down by the receptionist. waiting half an hour, then the Radiographer turns up at 10am. by this time there 6 people sat there. so asked what the hold up was as no one went in before me.

"we don't start till 10"

what the point in starting appointments at 9.30 then?

its little surprise the NHS is in crises with waiting times

Do you know why they don't start until 10am? And do you know what time to they finish? And are their start and end times the same every day?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The other annoyance is that they will give a group of people the same time. You turn up at 9.30 and discover 10 other people with the same time, due to see the same person.

One of my biggest bugbears with the NHS is the complete lack of professionalism regarding timekeeping. Drives me nuts. Just because they may have all day, others don't. And breathe......

You honestly think that clinical and medical staff can't be bothered trying hard to keep to clinic timescales - you actually believe that? And that they have all day? Let me go pass your thoughts by my clinical nurse specialist wife - see what she says

Yes - there are can be administrative issues that cause issues - but these do not in general impact the running of a clinic in the way you suggest. Why on earth 10 patients would all be given the same timeslot with the one clinician I do not know. Sounds a bit weird. Mind you - if everyone given a clinical timeslot turned up on time - or indeed turned up at all - then maybe there would be fewer problems.

 

[patricks148]

Do you know why they don't start until 10am? And do you know what time to they finish? And are their start and end times the same every day?

no idea, seems strange to have appointments starting half an hour before, you expect a bit of a wait, turning on equipment etc. already 40 mins behind before they even start

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

no idea, seems strange to have appointments starting half an hour before, you expect a bit of a wait, turning on equipment etc. already 40 mins behind before they even start

Tell you to turn up at 9:30am - you'll be there by 10am - pretty much regardless of the early morning traffic?

If you were to aim to turn up 9:55am for a 10am appointment and you are delayed half an your then LordTs issue happens immediately. Clinics know that it's crucial that the first appointments of the day happen on time - bit like the first group in the medal getting round in under 4 hours

 

[patricks148]

You honestly think that clinical and medical staff can't be bothered trying hard to keep to clinic timescales - you actually believe that? And that they have all day? Let me go pass your thoughts by my clinical nurse specialist wife - see what she says

Yes - there are can be administrative issues that cause issues - but these do not in general impact the running of a clinic in the way you suggest. Why on earth 10 patients would all be given the same timeslot with the one clinician I do not know. Sounds a bit weird. Mind you - if everyone given a clinical timeslot turned up on time - or indeed turned up at all - then maybe there would be fewer problems.

TBH my only experience of NHS hospitals is a poor one.

I had my knee smashed in 7 places back in 95. i had to go into hosp to get pins put in and was due to be there for a couple of days.

i was asked to be at the ward for 7am when i first went in as i was getting operated on that morning. No food or drink before etc. wasn't taken to surgery till 4pm.
that night i was woken up my an old lady in the next bay calling for a nurse to take her to the toilet. she called and called. i could see a few nurses hanging around at a desk by the ward entrance.. not taking a blind bit of notice. i started ringing my buzzer as well still nothing. in the end i grabbed one of my crutches and chucked it in the middle of the ward floor. one of them then came over, i explained about the old woman, but it was too late she had peed herself.

anyway the next evening the consultant surgeon came to see me had a look, was pleased and said i was ok to go home the next morning. The next morning my then girlfriend came to pick me up, but was explained the ward didn't know i was ok to leave and would send a porter to wheelchair me out. 6 hours later a porter arrived and i was allowed out.

not surprised there is a bed crisis.

 

[hovis]

i had an appointment at 8.30 the other day. when i arrived she said "sorry but theres a 30 minute wait". i said "ok, what time was the first appointment? '' she said 8.30.how is that even possible?
the nhs is a nightmare and every dealing ive personally had has been terrible. i had liver problems last year and had a 3 night stay. i needed to go home for a rest!!! it was dreadful. I've also had 2 operations on the private and the difference is off this planet. they even served me hot food!!!

i have to say that my daughter aged 3 is very clumsy and so has had 2 hospital visits. both where excellent

 

[Lord Tyrion]

You honestly think that clinical and medical staff can't be bothered trying hard to keep to clinic timescales - you actually believe that? And that they have all day? Let me go pass your thoughts by my clinical nurse specialist wife - see what she says

Yes - there are can be administrative issues that cause issues - but these do not in general impact the running of a clinic in the way you suggest. Why on earth 10 patients would all be given the same timeslot with the one clinician I do not know. Sounds a bit weird. Mind you - if everyone given a clinical timeslot turned up on time - or indeed turned up at all - then maybe there would be fewer problems.

Feel free to pass it on. That is my experience as a patient and as a parent of a patient. Endless appointments where doctors saunter in well past the first appointment time of the day. I reckon the average minimum wait time is 45 minutes, worst case 1.5 hrs. Sometimes you get lucky but rarely. A room full of patients all thinking they are the first appt and then finding out that actually you are not 9.30 but you could be any time from 9.30 - 11am. I've been there, got the badge. Time seems to have no concept, no apology or acknowledging the fact that the real time of my appointment bears no resemblence to the actual time I see someone. Sorry if you don't like that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not good - and yes - my wife's experience herself in the NHS this last 8 months has been mixed - and it has all been issues relating to admin and lack of joined up processes between departments. She can see and is massively frustrated how superb medical and clinical care is sorely let down by poor admin and inter-department processes. Too many NHS admin staff view themselves as untouchable Gods - and to be honest too many should be shown the door as their carelessness and lax attitude contributes hugely to the issues we encounter - and the poor morale of so many clinical and medical staff. But try and get rid of them...

As far as your own observation - having consulted my Mrs. In her clinics it used to be that it was common for multiple patients to be given the same time to see the same consultant. Except that isn't how it worked. All patients were listed under the consultant but not all were ever to be seen by the consultant. Prior to the clinic the consultant with all their team (registrars, nurse specialists etc) would look at the patient list and divvy up the patients.

Also it is common for patients to be asked to turn up in advance of the actual appointment with the consultant, radiographer etc just in case there are any specific needs uncovered not previously know by the clinic team - and these can be addressed and dealt with prior to the time given.

The clinic staff can only work with patients at the speed of the consultant - and the time a consultant spends with any one patient is totally dependent upon the individual patient, patient symptoms; diagnosis, and amount of care and treatment planning required.

And finally my wife wonders why anyone would think that clinical and medical staff would want to stay working in a clinic until 8 o'clock and later (as my wife had to do regularly) when they actually are supposed to finish work at 6pm. And they cannot just walk out of the door at 6pm - well they could - but being caring and responsible professionals they don't. Perhaps worth noting that admin staff tend to disappear out the door at there end time - they don't stay with the medical and clinical teams - leaving these teams to make sure the admin teams know what has happened in the clinics the next day.

She also does not deny that there is some very poor or lax nursing these days - and that does really upset her as she has been a nurse all of her working life and patient care and attention to patients remains core to her work. She started at the bottom (wiping them) as an SEN when she was 17 and has now been in the profession for almost 40yrs. And she does tell how things have gone very badly downhill in the last 10yrs - and especially the last 5yrs (but that's another thread).

My wife is a breast cancer nurse specialist. She often in a clinic will find herself with a woman who has just been given a diagnosis of cancer. She has a set amount of time to spend with this woman. But the women are often very distressed and struggling to understand what they have been told and what will happen next. My wife spends as much time as necessary - and that will often mean the appointment takes much longer than scheduled - and so the following appointment is delayed. What is she to do? Does she tell the woman - 'sorry - I have another appointment - I have to leave you now'. No - she stays with the woman and tries to get the consultation to the point she she feels the woman can leave. That's clinic and medical care for you - they are dealing with human beings.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Just a thought, not wanting to entirely bash the NHS but on timings they deserve it. Can you think of a job where it would be acceptable to be consistently late, no points for saying Southern Rail? Appt for the dentist, your bank, anything. Go to see a customer and arrive 50 minutes after the time, they wouldn't see you. That is a really easy one to solve. It is a cultural thing and the culture needs changing.

 

[hovis]

the trouble is with the nhs is your not treated as a customer. you HAVE to pay national insurance so what incentive is there to offer a good service? you cant refuse to pay

 

[patricks148]

When i broke it in the game, i was taken by ambulance to Harlow General, got to the hosp about 1pm. had it looked at by a Doc, then was told i'd be taken to have it Xrayed. sat i a corridor till 9m until a porter came and got me and took me to Xray dept. where the Radiographer said, "you've been playing Rugby late" not really i replied Ive been here since 1pm.. he was a little embarrassed and said that's strange we hav't seen anyone since 4pm, so i don't know why they didn't bring you straight here.

if i'd known is was simply waiting for a porter, i could have just dragged myself down there.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I will quote what I put in an edit to my earlier post

My wife is a breast cancer nurse specialist. She often in a clinic will find herself with a woman who has just been given a diagnosis of cancer. She has a set amount of time to spend with this woman. But the women are often very distressed and struggling to understand what they have been told and what will happen next. My wife spends as much time as necessary - and that will often mean the appointment takes much longer than scheduled - and so the following appointment is delayed. What is she to do? Does she tell the woman - 'sorry - I have another appointment - I have to leave you now'. No - she stays with the woman and tries to get the consultation to the point she she feels the woman can leave. That's clinic and medical care for you - they are dealing with human beings.

If you want more guaranteed scheduling of appointments - where more time is given for each patient - you can go private.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When i broke it in the game, i was taken by ambulance to Harlow General, got to the hosp about 1pm. had it looked at by a Doc, then was told i'd be taken to have it Xrayed. sat i a corridor till 9m until a porter came and got me and took me to Xray dept. where the Radiographer said, "you've been playing Rugby late" not really i replied Ive been here since 1pm.. he was a little embarrassed and said that's strange we hav't seen anyone since 4pm, so i don't know why they didn't bring you straight here.

if i'd known is was simply waiting for a porter, i could have just dragged myself down there.

Yup - exactly - lack of joined up processes - admin...

 

[hovis]

I will quote what I put in an edit to my earlier post

My wife is a breast cancer nurse specialist. She often in a clinic will find herself with a woman who has just been given a diagnosis of cancer. She has a set amount of time to spend with this woman. But the women are often very distressed and struggling to understand what they have been told and what will happen next. My wife spends as much time as necessary - and that will often mean the appointment takes much longer than scheduled - and so the following appointment is delayed. What is she to do? Does she tell the woman - 'sorry - I have another appointment - I have to leave you now'. No - she stays with the woman and tries to get the consultation to the point she she feels the woman can leave. That's clinic and medical care for you - they are dealing with human beings.

If you want more guaranteed scheduling of appointments - where more time is given for each patient - you can go private.

so what happens if she needs to spend all day with someone? the rest have to go home? my job has called for me to inform someone that there loved one is dead. i do my best to come across sincerely and with empathy and then get on with my job.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

so what happens if she needs to spend all day with someone? the rest have to go home? my job has called for me to inform someone that there loved one is dead. i do my best to come across sincerely and with empathy and then get on with my job.

She doesn't spend all day. If things look to be going on way too long, and the patient doesn't have someone with her - my wife will contact someone to come get her.

She's also got parking tickets because she's stayed with a patient in clinic past the time she had to move her car. But that's what she does - and what many if not most of her experience and age group do. And many thousands of these very experienced nurses are going to be retiring from the NHS soon. My Mrs is finishing this year and she knows many nurse specialists in her hospital are doing the same i the next 5yrs.

My wife worked with one of the most senior cancer surgeons in the country - whose wife was also a senior cancer radiologist. They have both recently retired from the NHS even although they were committed to the NHS - stress and workload. Their daughter is a senior house officer - and they wish she hadn't gone into the NHS as a doctor as the profession is so stressful and difficult these days and they wouldn't recommend it as a career to anyone. Bad days - very difficult days ahead.

When my wife started nursing she knew lots of girls going into the profession - it was one of the things girls did. It was a recognised and appreciated profession. We were considering this just recently - of the friends of my 21yr old and 24yr old children - we know of NONE who have gone into nursing. Not one.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Swingit - You are also using a very specific example, a specific clinic. The majority of us going to hospital and being left waiting are not in life or death situations where delays can be attributed to situations that you have described.

Your wife has a tough job, I am not having a go at her.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

When my wife started nursing she knew lots of girls going into the profession - it was one of the things girls did. It was a recognised and appreciated profession. We were considering this just recently - of the friends of my 21yr old and 24yr old children - we know of NONE who have gone into nursing. Not one.

To be fair, back in the day girls were directed towards becoming secretaries or nurses. That was the aspiration. Things are different now. Your point is a good one though, how does the NHS attract both men and women into nursing. It probably has to be more pro-active as we certainly need them.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The trouble with the NHS as I see it, everyone wants it perfect and now. No-one wants to pay more, staff dont want longer days, hospitals cant or wont employ more staff, there aren't the staff to fill vacancies, we have too many foreign workers int he NHS, not enough trained British staff and no one wants change.

I cant stand the creeping privatisation of the NHS, however it has to come into the 21st century and move with the times. Modern up to date practises have to be welcomed and this constant fighting and bickering from all sides has to stop, point scoring doesn't help anyone.