New Skycaddie SGX

[Sam]

Notice that it has Smartclub feature which allows you to buy plugs to fit in the hole in the grips which in turn automates distance registered against each club. Good stuff for us gadget-men but whether club distance measured auto or manual, the SGX also has the facility to recommend the club

Presume this can be switched off but even so does it not make the device illegal?

 

[SimonS]

I would argue that it does not make it illegal.

There is nothing to stop you going out on the course with pen and paper and measuring every shot you take and noting down the results. You would then have a database of average distances for all your clubs. If for example you need to hit a ball 140yds then you will know which club you need to go for. All this is doing is automating the data gathering.

What would be illegal is if it took into account slope/wind/temperature etc. The most difficult part to argue is whether the unit would be allowed to suggest clubs based on how you are playing 'today'. If it sees that all your shots are coming in at 10% shorter than average would it be allowed to suggest a different club to compensate? If a caddy is allowed to make suggestions then why not the SGX?

 

[USER1999]

I didn't think a dmd that recommended a club was allowed in comps. This feature, even when disabled, would be a non conforming device.

 

[Sam]

OK - found the R&A section:

When the Local Rule is in effect, distance-measuring devices must be limited to
measuring distance only. The use of a distance-measuring device would
constitute a breach of the Rules if:
 The device has the capability of gauging or measuring other conditions that
might affect play (e.g. wind speed, gradient, temperature, etc), or;
 The device has some other non-conforming feature, including, but not
limited to, recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke
or in his play, such as club selection, type of shot to be played (e.g. punch
shot, pitch and run, etc.), or green reading (i.e. a recommended line of
putt), or other advice-related matters. However, it is permissible to use
such a device, during a stipulated round, to access distance information
from previous rounds that has been processed prior to the
commencement of the current round (e.g. a chart of all club yardages), or;
 The device has the capability to assist in calculating the effective distance
between two points (i.e. distance after considering gradient, wind speed
and/or direction, temperature or other environmental factors).
There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be
switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged.

Reckon it's illegal but that middle bit is very confusing and I really cannot understand Skycaddie bringing this out if not available for comps

 

[haplesshacker]

I can see from the (current) wording that it would make the device illegal. However. Are Skycaddie aware of a possible change to the ruling considering the well reasoned 'human caddie' argument!

I'm afraid that these devices are becoming a bit of an arms race. Though I don't need a £300 plus GPS to tell me if I need a 6 iron or 7 iron depending on how I'm hitting on the day. I kinda know. Seat of the pants stuff that any golfer, no matter how god or bad will know.

As I've said before. I've been through the whole GPS development thing in yacht racing. Believe me. The rule makers will not be able to keep pace with what is technically possible. They need to either except that it's happening and draw a line as to what is allowed, both now and for the near future, and as to what is reasonable for an amatuer to expect in the way of info that these things can provide. Or just ban every aspect except distances to hazards, greens, etc.

FWIW, I'd probably do somthing along the lines of;

Acceptable.
Distance to greens.
Distances to hazards.
Distances to start / end of fairways.
Distances to dog legs etc.
Measure shot facility.
Being able to record stats and clubs used for each shot.
Being able to recommend a club for next shot (from stats contained from previous rounds etc).
Being able to give distance to preferred lay up distances.
(All can be done numerically or with graphics / google earth / mapping)

None of this is no different to having a human caddie, or via the trial and error pen, paper, strokesaver method. It's just an electronic version of it.

My only concern is that golf as a game will change. Using something like the SC2.5 for example, it's very quick and easy to use. However, with these new units, if you're pressing buttons before and after very shot, analysing club selection etc. It does detract from the social aspect of the game, and could, slow play down even further.

Well that's me done. Let's face it. There's still the job of picking up the bat and hitting the ball to deal with, and no GPS is going to help me do that any better!

 

[SimonS]

The syntax of the text above is missleading since the forum software does not cope well with copy & paste.

The actual text is at http://www2.randa.org/news/files/Joint%20Statement%20on%20DMDs%20_R&A%20Final_.pdf

The second bullet point of item 2 would forbid the DMD from suggesting clubs based on your current performance but it does allow reference to distances from any previous rounds.

 

[drawboy]

What would be illegal is if it took into account slope/wind/temperature etc. The most difficult part to argue is whether the unit would be allowed to suggest clubs based on how you are playing 'today'.

Is this not exactly the role of a caddie? caddies are not illegal, all gps systems do is give the equivalent of a caddie in your pocket.If everyone could afford to employ a full time caddie there would be no need for gps units until then they are a great invention IMO.

 

[viscount17]

The syntax of the text above is missleading since the forum software does not cope well with copy & paste.

The actual text is at http://www2.randa.org/news/files/Joint%20Statement%20on%20DMDs%20_R&A%20Final_.pdf

The second bullet point of item 2 would forbid the DMD from suggesting clubs based on your current performance but it does allow reference to distances from any previous rounds.

from the same reference; this is the salient point:

The R&A and USGA have no intention to permit the use of electronic devices to go beyond the current Rules and interpretations. This means that distance-measuring devices and applications will be limited to distance information only. If a device that is being used for distance-measuring purposes has any additional features, all such features must conform to the Rules of Golf.
All manufacturers of distance-measuring products are encouraged to submit their devices or applications to the appropriate governing body for a ruling.