Need some views from managerial types please.

[Beezerk]

When negotiating a pay rise, is it better to tell your boss you are considering leaving or keep your cards close to your chest?
Don't want to go into too much detail, but we'll work on the basis you are a highly valued member of the team who would be extremely difficult to replace.

That's about it really.

 

[Ethan]

You can only play the leaving card once, and after you play it, your relationship with the boss changes for ever. There is some research that shows that people who use the threat to leverage a pay rise or promotion don't stay long even if they get it, no matter how valued a member of the team they are.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Don't go in and threaten, it will make them defensive. Speak to them first and gauge their reaction. If they laugh down your request then I would leave the meeting calmly and then a day or two afterwards mention that you are thinking on leaving following their repsonse. Only do this if you have something lined up though.

I have been in your position as an employee, followed this tack and left shortly afterwards. I have also been on the other end of a pay request. Going in with threats gets people's back up. Do it amicably but know you have this up your sleeve if required. If as you say, you are in a strong position, then you can carry this out holding most of the ammunition. It is surprising how well you negotiate when you don't fear leaving.

 

[Rooter]

If you threaten to leave, be prepared to follow through with it. I read somewhere recently that something like 80% of people given a pay rise after threatening to leave, leave within 12 months anyway.

If i were your boss and unless the company would not function without you, i would tell you to go. If you like it there and its just a case of wanting/needing more cash, ask for it. Show your boss why you are worth it (projects worked on, value added etc) People are an unfortunate commodity these days, and while you may think your are irreplaceable, you most likely are not.

Do your research, find the going rate for what you do locally (comparing london wages with sheffield for example is a waste of time), also tell the boss what you are going to do over the next year (2-3 etc) to make his business better as well, how you are improving with a training course, or extra responsibility, mentoring the new guy etc etc..

Good luck!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Can only offer advice based upon my attitude prior to retirement.

If a member of staff had approached me with that "ultimatum" I would, in all probability, have called his/her bluff as no one likes being "threatened". As has been said those that adopt this tactic often leave anyway even if they secure an acceptable deal.

However, if the employee was a truly valued member of the team I would very much hope that we could negotiate without the gun on the table.

 

[Beezerk]

You can only play the leaving card once, and after you play it, your relationship with the boss changes for ever. There is some research that shows that people who use the threat to leverage a pay rise or promotion don't stay long even if they get it, no matter how valued a member of the team they are.

Interesting, although one of my colleagues used it about 5 years ago and is still with us, plus he got employer of the year 2 years ago
To be honest it isn't really a threat, I am considering leaving this year anyway so I was wondering if was worth using to my advantage.

 

[Ethan]

Interesting, although one of my colleagues used it about 5 years ago and is still with us, plus he got employer of the year 2 years ago
To be honest it isn't really a threat, I am considering leaving this year anyway so I was wondering if was worth using to my advantage.

Well I have known people who ran across a motorway drunk and survived, but I wouldn't recommend that either. Others have referenced the same research I have seen. If you are leaving anyway and don't mind the risk of your bluff being called, then there is a lot less risk.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

It is worth remembering the old saying 'the graveyards are full of people who thought they were irreplaceable'.
A good manager/ director/owner will have folk in place to replace the irreplaceable ones.
Three of the jobs I left promoted my assistant/deputy two are still there after many decades.

On the other hand if you know your own value and feel that you are underemployed, underpayed or undervalued move on, their loss.

In 1978 I was offered a £2k pay rise within 2 hours of handing in my notice. Funny how I was not worth that at the start of that day.
[I was actually very well payed, and was moving on for other reasons]

 

[apj0524]

I'm in potion where members of Engineering team ask for a pay rise over the annual review, I respond much better to: 1) A thought through argument as to why they feel their role has changed / developed that shows they should be paid more.2) Or there skill set I the market is worth more than they are being paid.3) Do not use the I'm thinking of leaving argument.4) A Reasonable request or and agreed staggered increase based on agreed achievementsSo my recommendation is not just as for more money, be prepared to justify it and not by just saying you'll leave cause in my experience when I'm told that I think the person will leave anyway because the pay increase can be a sticking plaster for other issues.

 

[Beezerk]

It is worth remembering the old saying 'the graveyards are full of people who thought they were irreplaceable'.
A good manager/ director/owner will have folk in place to replace the irreplaceable ones.

Definitely agree with that, I've worked with plenty who think the company revolves around them. What I have going for me is I work for a company who make bespoke cnc machinery, very few people know how to work on them, I can count them all on one hand and I'm included in that equation.
The crux of the matter is how much time I'm spending away from home nowadays, it seems to be week after week stuck in a hotel room. Let's say there's 8 of us out in the field, there's only really me who seems to get long stretches away from home, to make it worse we used to get a bonus if we stayed overnight in a hotel but this got taken off us years ago as a couple were talking the mickey out of it so we all paid for their greed!
Things came to a head last year when I spent the entire month of July away from home, this was after I'd already spent probably 1/3 of my time from January onwards in hotels. I kicked up a fuss with my co-ordinator and things improved for a while but it's now back to square one. At the time I looked for a job while bored in a hotel room, I searched on Monday, applied on Tuesday and got offered one on Friday, 5 miles from my new house but quite a big pay cut. The missus told me to hold out until this year while we settle into the new place and look again if I'm still unhappy.
I actually really enjoy my job, different customer most days, good crack and the customers treat us very well...mostly.
So I either need to be home more or compensating for being away much more than the other guys, does that sound reasonable?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Not doubting anyone's competence but in 30 odd years of working I am yet to meet anyone who is extremely difficult to replace. In fact the closest I have seen are often the more low paid workers who actually do a damn fine job without any fuss or bother. Manager types are mostly interchangeable. Yes there can be some temporary short term issues, but other than that no one is irreplaceable.

 

[Beezerk]

I'm in potion where members of Engineering team ask for a pay rise over the annual review, I respond much better to: 1) A thought through argument as to why they feel their role has changed / developed that shows they should be paid more.2) Or there skill set I the market is worth more than they are being paid.3) Do not use the I'm thinking of leaving argument.4) A Reasonable request or and agreed staggered increase based on agreed achievementsSo my recommendation is not just as for more money, be prepared to justify it and not by just saying you'll leave cause in my experience when I'm told that I think the person will leave anyway because the pay increase can be a sticking plaster for other issues.

Thanks mate, much appreciated. I don't want to be one of those who storms in saying I'm leaving, it's not my style but I do like to be honest. If my manager isn't prepared to budge on certain apsects then I'll happily walk, just to clear it up, I don't intend on going in there and using it as a threat.

 

[Beezerk]

Not doubting anyone's competence but in 30 odd years of working I am yet to meet anyone who is extremely difficult to replace.

I don't think I've actually met you have I?

 

[Piece]

I definitely understand the situation. I have been in this predicament three times over my career with three different companies. I'm thinking you feel a bit undervalued and not getting what you think you should be getting; it's all about being fair not greedy? Long hours, long time away from home and you do your very best, but there comes a time when the cup spills over after months of deliberation or feeling that you are being squeezed and your good loyalty and commitment towards the company are not being returned. Something has to give. You either address the problem directly and have a grown-up conversation with the powers that be, or you continue sitting uneasily in your position and do your job for another few months until it bubbles up again (and repeat, then repeat....), or you leave.

Others have said no-one's irreplaceable, which I get, but that's not strictly true, especially for smaller companies. What I have learnt is that any company owes you nothing. They will continue to pay you what you are getting or even squeeze you further, and that will go on until something breaks or happens - you leave or enter into negotiations.

If you haven't had this type of conversation with your company, it can be daunting. Having done it three times and all successfully, the potential results far outweighs any pre-meeting doubts. The key is in the preparation and your approach - what has changed, why, what's the impact financially you've noticed and crucially, evidence of why you think you are 'out of pocket', and what would you like to see happen. This can all be done amicably and must not be done confrontationally. I have used evidence of other employers 'going rate' (via looking at other similar jobs...let them make the link that you are looking elsewhere ) or peers rate to justify my position. Even if at the end of the meeting or later down the line you don't get what you want or need, then at least you know where you stand, you've done what you can, and can make an informed decision of your next step.

Speaking from direct experience, if you don't ask, you certainly won't get. Just ask in the right way. Good luck. :thup:

 

[Beezerk]

I definitely understand the situation. I have been in this predicament three times over my career with three different companies. I'm thinking you feel a bit undervalued and not getting what you think you should be getting; it's all about being fair not greedy? Long hours, long time away from home and you do your very best, but there comes a time when the cup spills over after months of deliberation or feeling that you are being squeezed and your good loyalty and commitment towards the company are not being returned. Something has to give. You either address the problem directly and have a grown-up conversation with the powers that be, or you continue sitting uneasily in your position and do your job for another few months until it bubbles up again (and repeat, then repeat....), or you leave.

Others have said no-one's irreplaceable, which I get, but that's not strictly true, especially for smaller companies. What I have learnt is that any company owes you nothing. They will continue to pay you what you are getting or even squeeze you further, and that will go on until something breaks or happens - you leave or enter into negotiations.

If you haven't had this type of conversation with your company, it can be daunting. Having done it three times and all successfully, the potential results far outweighs any pre-meeting doubts. The key is in the preparation and your approach - what has changed, why, what's the impact financially you've noticed and crucially, evidence of why you think you are 'out of pocket', and what would you like to see happen. This can all be done amicably and must not be done confrontationally. I have used evidence of other employers 'going rate' (via looking at other similar jobs...let them make the link that you are looking elsewhere ) or peers rate to justify my position. Even if at the end of the meeting or later down the line you don't get what you want or need, then at least you know where you stand, you've done what you can, and can make an informed decision of your next step.

Speaking from direct experience, if you don't ask, you certainly won't get. Just ask in the right way. Good luck. :thup:

Much appreciated mate, great post. We are a small firm in quite a specific market, as an example, we've employed three engineers from various industries over the last couple of years. All three are still struggling badly to get to grips with our machines, even with lots of training they just don't have what it takes yet, some are banned from certain factories hence why I sometimes have to spend a week away sorting out their cock ups.

 

[SocketRocket]

Dont threaten, make your case for better pay based on facts. Explain that you like your job and working for the organisation, if other companies pay more then give examples while making it clear your preference is to stay.

Good luck.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Much appreciated mate, great post. We are a small firm in quite a specific market, as an example, we've employed three engineers from various industries over the last couple of years. All three are still struggling badly to get to grips with our machines, even with lots of training they just don't have what it takes yet, some are banned from certain factories hence why I sometimes have to spend a week away sorting out their cock ups.

Pick up the important points you have made on here..........eg the last line of the above post.
Sounds like you have a good case. Let them know that you feel you are being 'taken for granted' and that your home life is suffering.
Keep it light but stay focused and job related.
NEVER apologise for anything. D'ONT tell them you enjoy your work.

They would then have to balance the risk of losing a good worker.
As any decent manager will tell you, replacing good staff comes with a big price tag.

 

[Beezerk]

Thanks for all the advice, I've had some very helpful comments and discussions (you know who you are) so I have a much clearer picture of how I'm going to approach this. Hopefully I'll get a positive outcome and the missus will see a little more of me through the week.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thanks for all the advice, I've had some very helpful comments and discussions (you know who you are) so I have a much clearer picture of how I'm going to approach this. Hopefully I'll get a positive outcome and the missus will see a little more of me through the week.

Hope it works out as you want

 

[Stegsie]

In my experience it never ends well if one threatens to leave over pay. I've been on both sides of the fence, did it myself as a younger man. As a manager for the pas 15+ years I would say that if any of my staff threatened to leave unless they were paid more then I'd have a very different opinion of them going forward. I suppose it's how you go about it. For me, I would say that you need to concentrate on the positives and why you deserve to be paid more - here you can also include the fact that similar roles in your area / skillset etc are paid more. That would be a more sensible approach IMO.