Need some clarity please

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Hendo007

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So I played in an open on Saturday, conditions were terrible and I dropped 4 shots in the first 3 holes, however i was playing alright at the time. Get to the turn having had one birdie and only one other bogey to be 4 over at the turn.. Thinking to myself this is going ok.... lol

Queue my tee shot on the 10th... I topped it 20/30 yards and into rough about half the size of me, so I reload and hit a provisional incase i don't find it (which to be honest at the time i thought there no chance in that stuffs) I then proceed to play the exact same topped tee shot into the same pile of crap....

So I play a third provisional tee shot. This time I manage to get it going in generally the right direction.

I decide to go into the rough for a search and believe it or not i find 3 balls in the space of 30 seconds 2 of which were my first and second shots.

So I believe that in finding my first ball it then becomes the ball in play, first and second provisional are therefore discarded.

Having found the first ball I had no choice but to declare it unplayable as there was no possible way to swing a club in that stuffs. Going on the unplayable ball rule I had 3 options 1 two club lengths from where it lay, this was not an option as it wasn't enough to get a playable lie. Go back in line with the flag which took be back to the tee box, or 3 replay the shot from where I had played it.

As it was my tee shot I believed that I was able to tee the ball back up again and play from there. My PP said there was no way that I could tee the ball up again. we discussed if for a bit and I decided that I would drop the ball in line with the flag and play from there. (at the front of the tee box)

I have looked at the rules this evening and if I am reading them correctly then I believe that I was right in that i could have tee'd the ball up again.

Can someone please clarify this for me ?

despite winning a watch in finding my first ball I lost the plot following the discussions on who was right etc and ended up carding a 12 and blowing what could have been a winning performance, I just want to know who was right.

Thanks
 
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Hendo007

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No problems teeing the ball on the teeing ground. See rule 20-5 (a).
Thanks Clive, I was adamant I was right but my PP was adamant he was. Unfortunately because of the weather I had left my phone in the car for fear of getting it soaked so i had no immediate access to the rules to clarify. I think he was confused because I had had to hit 2 provisional balls and found my first. He even made a comment "just because your on a decent score and its gone pear shaped or words to those affect" He argued quite convincingly and in the end made me doubt myself. So I elected to take the drop in line with the flag to be sure, but had to hit the 4 iron to get it up and over the clag. I believe if he had not argued the point I'd have hit the driver off the tee again and I'd have walked away with a 6 or a 7 at worst. As it happens it my head was gone after that as was the concentration and I hacked my way to the 12...
 

super hans

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something similar has happened to me in the past. Would it have been allowable to finish the hole with 2 balls (one going back on a line & one from 3 off the tee) and then seek an official ruling at the end of the round ?
 

KenL

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Once you found your first ball you can go back to the tee with it as others have said.

At least in terms of your score your 12 would have been reduced to a nett double bogey for handicap purposes.
 

Colin L

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To add some advice to this, you do not have to do what a fellow competitor says you must do. He is not a referee. If you had (correctly) played again from the tee and teed up, all he could do would be to report his misgivings to the Committee or, if your marker, even refuse to sign your card.

But better than arguments on the course is to use Rule 3-3 and play a second ball. In your situation, you would tell your FC you would play a ball under both options and that you wanted the one played from the tee to count. You then report the circumstances to the Committee and get a ruling. That relieves you both from the argument, achieves the correct ruling and saves your score.
 

Spuddy

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something similar has happened to me in the past. Would it have been allowable to finish the hole with 2 balls (one going back on a line & one from 3 off the tee) and then seek an official ruling at the end of the round ?
Absolutely. I'm glad I always have my rule book as guys like this fellow competitor really annoy me. I don't mind people who have a poor rules knowledge provided they know it themselves and so take the time to check things out if unsure. This chap who thinks he's right but isn't and was to stubborn to even consider that he might be wrong is one of the reasons there are so many rules myths out there.
 

duncan mackie

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in case anyone missed the last (numerous times) I've posted this - the only 2 rules you need to really really know and understand are 2-5 and 3-3; basically what to do when you don't know what to do...

the reason is exemplified in this thread - to cut straight through all and any on course argument and debate and let you get on with the game in hand.

now I'm not suggesting that either is a simple rule. but it's worth understanding them and even printing them on a nice piece of card or otherwise to keep in your bag for easy reference.
 

Imurg

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It's worth remembering that, in some circumstances it may be better to take 2 or more separate penalty drops. If, for example, when you found your first ball you may have thought you could get it out so played at it. You may have simply pushed it deeper into the clag. Now your stroke and distance penalty is worthless. Taking a drop or 2 may get you out into the clear if going back on a line isn't feasible.
 

gdunc79

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So you could drop twice i.e. effectively four club lengths for the cost of 2 strokes to get you out of the clag and in the clear? Never thought of that before!

On a side note, how many of you actually pull out the rule book on the course in instances such as this? I have it in my bag but have never pulled it out for fear of being mocked by FCs or because of the delay it would take as I sifted through looking for the correct rule.....maybe I just need to man up!!
 

Fyldewhite

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If you think about it logically, the provisional ball rule is only there to save time.....and you can tee that up. Sound advice to simply play two balls and then make a point of informing your PP afterwards that you were right!!
 

bladeplayer

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What annoys me about what happened in the OP is when people who clearly dont know the rules are so adamant they are right ,

I like learning the rules and have a fair understanding of the basics , but i still try stay away from situations as much as possible


This bit would realy have gotten me going tho ,
He even made a comment "just because your on a decent score and its gone pear shaped or words to those affect"


Id get some pleasure in showing this guy the rule
 
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On this - if the tee (as opposed to teeing area as defined by two club lengths) is very long, and you played your tee shot from the very back of it - can you choose the option to go back in line with the flag and tee your ball up at the front of the tee (assuming that is possible going back in line). I would say not but just checking.
 

Kellfire

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On this - if the tee (as opposed to teeing area as defined by two club lengths) is very long, and you played your tee shot from the very back of it - can you choose the option to go back in line with the flag and tee your ball up at the front of the tee (assuming that is possible going back in line). I would say not but just checking.
Wouldn't your first tee shot be subject to a penalty for being outside of the two club lengths from the front of the tee box rule in the first place?
 
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Wouldn't your first tee shot be subject to a penalty for being outside of the two club lengths from the front of the tee box rule in the first place?
you misunderstand - due to my stupid question,. I tee up at the back of the tee - in the tee ground. I top ball into clag in front of tee; I take back in line with flag and am on the tee - let's say 70yds in front of the tee ground as it's a very long tee. I can certainly drop my ball on the tee and play it. My stupid question was asking whether, simply because I was on the tee (not in the tee ground), I could tee the ball up.
 

Fyldewhite

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you misunderstand - due to my stupid question,. I tee up at the back of the tee - in the tee ground. I top ball into clag in front of tee; I take back in line with flag and am on the tee - let's say 70yds in front of the tee ground as it's a very long tee. I can certainly drop my ball on the tee and play it. My stupid question was asking whether, simply because I was on the tee (not in the tee ground), I could tee the ball up.
No, because you are going back on line as opposed to stroke and distance. Different options.
 
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So you could drop twice i.e. effectively four club lengths for the cost of 2 strokes to get you out of the clag and in the clear? Never thought of that before!

On a side note, how many of you actually pull out the rule book on the course in instances such as this? I have it in my bag but have never pulled it out for fear of being mocked by FCs or because of the delay it would take as I sifted through looking for the correct rule.....maybe I just need to man up!!
I carry a rule book in my bag, it helps if there is a disagreement over any rule issues
 
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Hendo007

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Cheers for the comments guys...

I was so sure on the day that I was right but this geezer was the one that turned a discussion into a slightly heated debate and he was more adamant that he was right. i even explained the rule to him but still he said "but you can't tee it up, thats like getting a second chance at it" then went onto the part about a decent score. Eventually i just said listen for the sake of if it I'll take option two and drop it in line with the flag at the front of the teeing ground.

I'm not the best at the rules but i read the rules forum often, and any discussions on the rules i have a copy of the rules book on my desk right here, I like to look them up and understand them so I'm confident i have a decent understanding.

It gets my goat aswell when people who think they know argue the point blind that they are right. Had I had my phone on me (which i normally do) I'd have had it out without question to prove my point. (got the rules app on it)

He even said on the walk between the 10th and 11th "I feel really bad now"

Well no as bad as he will be when i track him down and e-mail to let him know he was wrong !!!

Note to self - remember the other rule and play two balls !!!! that was my mistake and also not actually listening to him....

What else was interesting, i asked in the pro shop to an older gent and two younger chaps their opinion on it after the round and would you believe it they both agreed with the other guy. Granted it wasn't the actual pro, he was gone, but just goes to show how many people just don't know....

Cheers again, next time I'll do it my way, and if I'm wrong i'll take the DQ and the lesson learned.
 

srixon 1

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I have a rules app on my phone. Not sure if it is legal to use during a qualifying comp but it is so much easier to find the correct rule than using the official rule book. Have used it a few times when playing amongst ourselves when people are unsure about a particular rule.
 
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