Nearest point of relief arguement.

[louise_a]

On our 15th we have a fence just behind the green, it is about 20yds long. its not a solid fence just posts and a couple of cross pieces. Immediately behind the fence is a strip of cultivated ground that is planted with shrubs, behind that is a path and then a teeing ground.

One of our newer members is a qualified Lancashire golf referee and today I had a debate (argument) with he about the nearest point of relief. She said that the could move the ball to the end of the fence and then drop not hearer the hole. I disagreed and said that I believe that the NPR would more than be likely behind the fence in the shrubs.

So who is right?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Seems from what you say that you would be right

 

[Scotty Cameron]

Whereabouts was the ball lying in relation to the fence???? surely that determines NPOR.

 

[louise_a]

Whereabouts was the ball lying in relation to the fence???? surely that determines NPOR.

more or less anywhere apart from a yard or so from either end, where the NPR could in fact be by the side of the fence.

 

[North Mimms]

Is the planted area in play?
Quite often you can't play from such areas

 

[Colin L]

Louise

There would be more than one possible NPR to consider. I would be measuring out 3 positions as shown on the diagram. (NPRs 1 and 2 and the ball are supposed to be on an arc centred on the hole). What is sure, however, is that the NPR isn't necessarily at the end of the fence. That would only be the case if the ball were lying near the end. And, yes, the NPR could well be behind the fence.

 

[delc]

On our 15th we have a fence just behind the green, it is about 20yds long. its not a solid fence just posts and a couple of cross pieces. Immediately behind the fence is a strip of cultivated ground that is planted with shrubs, behind that is a path and then a teeing ground.

One of our newer members is a qualified Lancashire golf referee and today I had a debate (argument) with he about the nearest point of relief. She said that the could move the ball to the end of the fence and then drop not hearer the hole. I disagreed and said that I believe that the NPR would more than be likely behind the fence in the shrubs.

So who is right?

I would take the Lancashire Golf Referee's advice if I where you, as the other options sound more unpleasant and further away from the hole! Could we have a drawing or photo of this fence, as it is difficult to make a decision on the information given?

 

[louise_a]

Photo

 

[Colin L]

I would take the Lancashire Golf Referee's advice if I where you, as the other options sound more unpleasant and further away from the hole! Could we have a drawing or photo of this fence, as it is difficult to make a decision on the information given?

A dangerous suggestion! We all make refereeing mistakes which is ok for the player if we are on duty because he/she is protected from penalty, but there is no protection if we are just giving a fellow player advice and get it wrong.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I would take the Lancashire Golf Referee's advice if I where you, as the other options sound more unpleasant and further away from the hole! Could we have a drawing or photo of this fence, as it is difficult to make a decision on the information given?

Just because it sounds "unpleasant" doesn't mean it's not the correct drop

Remembering its nearest point of relief not nearest "best" point of relief

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I would take the Lancashire Golf Referee's advice if I where you, as the other options sound more unpleasant and further away from the hole! Could we have a drawing or photo of this fence, as it is difficult to make a decision on the information given?

Definitely wouldn't take the referee's word. It has other options to consider especially if the planted area is considered an integral part of the course and in play

 

[Colin L]

Thanks for the photo, Louise. I think my diagram was about right for that.

For the NPR to be at the end of the fence, the ball would have to be nearer that point than the nearest point behind the fence where there is no interference as in this diagram.

 

[delc]

Assuming that the fence is an immovable obstruction, Rule 25-2 applies. You also need to check for any local rules.

 

[Colin L]

Homer, Del

Why not just take the question as Louise has presented it?

 

[louise_a]

Interesting aftermath, I have just had an email from our referee, she took the query to a senior England referee this evening, who confirmed what I had said, and included a diagram showing it.

 

[Colin L]

Louise

It might be that an NPR plus club length behind the fence would be enough to give you a reasonable wedge shot over it, but the situation does suggest to me that a DZ would be in order.

Well done you, holding your own and being right.

 

[North Mimms]

The bit about moving to end of fence, then dropping ball sounds familiar.
I *think* thats what the players had to do at a pro event I was marshalling at- there were solid advertising "fences" round the back of the green. But they were temporary IO, so maybe there is a different rule for those.

This might be utter nonsense of course!

 

[Colin L]

The bit about moving to end of fence, then dropping ball sounds familiar.
I *think* thats what the players had to do at a pro event I was marshalling at- there were solid advertising "fences" round the back of the green. But they were temporary IO, so maybe there is a different rule for those.

This might be utter nonsense of course!

Not nonsense at all. Relief from TIOs includes relief from interference on line of play. My immediate thought re Louise's referee friend was that she was getting confused between a TIO and an immovable obstruction.