Moving ball moved by dog

[Deleted member 30522]

So this disaster happened yesterday, two of us in a bunker, I play, dog sprints out of nowhere, grabs my ball once it had stopped, no issue, outside agency, replace ball.

However my playing partner also hits onto green, dog loves it, comes flying back, ball is still moving (apparently, I didn't see it), what happens next?

 

[salfordlad]

If the dog grabs and makes off with the moving ball, this is covered by Rule 11.1b. If the ball was anywhere except on putting green, the player drops a ball into a one club length relief area using a reference point right under where the moving ball was lifted (with the usual caveats, not nearer the hole and same area of the course as the reference point). If the ball was on the green, the player places on the estimated spot under where the ball was grabbed.
If the dog has merely deflected the moving ball, it is played as lies, Rule 11.1a. (Good luck if it is in the hole, bad luck if it is OB.)

 

[Deleted member 30522]

If the dog grabs and makes off with the moving ball, this is covered by Rule 11.1b. If the ball was anywhere except on putting green, the player drops a ball into a one club length relief area using a reference point right under where the moving ball was lifted (with the usual caveats, not nearer the hole and same area of the course as the reference point). If the ball was on the green, the player places on the estimated spot under where the ball was grabbed.
If the dog has merely deflected the moving ball, it is played as lies, Rule 11.1a. (Good luck if it is in the hole, bad luck if it is OB.)

Ah no, the bugger was off with both balls, correct procedure was followed in both cases then

 

[cliveb]

If the ball was on the green, the player places on the estimated spot under where the ball was grabbed.

This sounds like a bad rule to me. You hit a good putt which would have ended up in or close to the hole, but a dog grabs it yards from the hole. Placing a ball where the dog grabbed it is clearly unfair. Surely cancelling the stroke and retaking the putt would make more sense?

 

[rulefan]

Surely cancelling the stroke and retaking the putt would make more sense?

It does

11.1b Exception 2 – When Ball Played from Putting Green Accidentally Hits Any Person, Animal or Movable Obstruction (Including Another Ball in Motion) on Putting Green: The stroke does not count and the original ball or another ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated) (see Rule 14.2), except in these two cases:

• Ball in Motion Hits Another Ball at Rest or Ball-Marker on Putting Green. The stroke counts and the ball must be played as it lies. (See Rule 11.1a for whether a penalty applies in stroke play).
• Ball in Motion Accidentally Hits Flagstick or Person Attending Flagstick. This is covered by Rule 13.2b(2), not by this Rule.

 

[salfordlad]

This sounds like a bad rule to me. You hit a good putt which would have ended up in or close to the hole, but a dog grabs it yards from the hole. Placing a ball where the dog grabbed it is clearly unfair. Surely cancelling the stroke and retaking the putt would make more sense?

My answer replied to the OP's question - a ball played from the bunker (in fact a stroke played from other than a putting green). A stroke played from the putting green is treated under a different rule, with a different outcome (11.1b Exc 2, as Rulefan notes).

 

[cliveb]

Surely cancelling the stroke and retaking the putt would make more sense?

It does
11.1b Exception 2 ...[snip]

OK, thanks. Guess I should have looked it up before taking salfordlad's word for it.

EDIT: OK, I see salfordlad has clarified his previous answer. In my defence the wording in his post #2 does talk about "if the ball was on the green", so I think my confusion is understandable.

 

[salfordlad]

OK, thanks. Guess I should have looked it up before taking salfordlad's word for it.

To be very clear, you didn't take my word for it, you asked a different question.

 

[salfordlad]

OK, thanks. Guess I should have looked it up before taking salfordlad's word for it.

EDIT: OK, I see salfordlad has clarified his previous answer. In my defence the wording in his post #2 does talk about "if the ball was on the green", so I think my confusion is understandable.

It is not a clarification. You asked a different question.

 

[cliveb]

To be very clear, you didn't take my word for it, you asked a different question.

Here's what you wrote:

If the dog grabs and makes off with the moving ball, this is covered by Rule 11.1b. If the ball was anywhere except on putting green, the player drops a ball into a one club length relief area using a reference point right under where the moving ball was lifted (with the usual caveats, not nearer the hole and same area of the course as the reference point). If the ball was on the green, the player places on the estimated spot under where the ball was grabbed.
If the dog has merely deflected the moving ball, it is played as lies, Rule 11.1a. (Good luck if it is in the hole, bad luck if it is OB.)

I took it to mean than if you play from on the green and a dog grabs the ball, you place where it was grabbed, which I think is a reasonable (mis)interpretation.
I now realise what you were actually saying is that if a ball played from off the green is grabbed by a dog once it's on the green, then you place a ball at that spot.

I have to say that this could still result in very bad luck. If I played an exquisite chip from just off the green and a dog intercepted it I'd be pretty miffed at not being able to retake the shot, but I guess the rules cannot cover every conceivable situation.

 

[salfordlad]

Here's what you wrote:

I took it to mean than if you play from on the green and a dog grabs the ball, you place where it was grabbed, which I think is a reasonable (mis)interpretation.
I now realise what you were actually saying is that if a ball played from off the green is grabbed by a dog once it's on the green, then you place a ball at that spot.

I have to say that this could still result in very bad luck. If I played an exquisite chip from just off the green and a dog intercepted it I'd be pretty miffed at not being able to retake the shot, but I guess the rules cannot cover every conceivable situation.

I am absolutely aware of what I wrote. It was a specific and fulsome reply to the question, two players had played from a bunker and a dog got involved each time.

I agree, a dog getting involved could be a significant influence on the outcome, for better or for worse. In your stroke from the putting green scenario, if your ball was headed for the hole from a tricky putt, you are unlikely to be pleased. Conversely, if you had overhit a putt on a slippery downhill slope and your ball was heading off the green and into a bunker, you may be inclined to share your lunch with the beast. Also keep in mind, Rulefan's reply only holds for a ball played from the green AND the dog interference is on the putting green. If the stroke is played from the putting green and the interference is off the putting green (that overhit putt scenario) that is a different situation again.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just asking for my own education.
Why is there a different outcome if said dog grabs your ball .
What is the logic between two shots same outcome but ones on the green ,ones six inches off the green.
But two different rulings.
I know it’s in the rule book but why the difference in outcomes.?

 

[Colin L]

It's not a matter of logic, just the very practical matter of having a cut-off point and on or off the green is a very clear, unambiguous cut-off.

 

[rulie]

It's not a matter of logic, just the very practical matter of having a cut-off point and on or off the green is a very clear, unambiguous cut-off.

Also, the procedure to be followed depends on the area of the course where the incident occurred. Off the green is in the general area, on the green is on the putting green; two different procedures involved for two different areas of the course.