Mobile Phone Use

[Deleted member 16999]

On another thread it was mentioned that you can access the RandA App on a mobile phone during a competition, can someone clarify this please, I understand the rules pertaining to it's use as a DMD and I thought that if the phone can be used in other ways to help the Golfer, even if they are not used, then the use is banned full stop.

 

[Region3]

Use as a DMD is prohibited afaik if there are apps which would be illegal to use, even if they aren't used.

Use as a mobile phone, or even to use the internet to look at a weather forecast, is ok even if there are other illegal apps on there.

Go figure.

The GG app would fall in the former category I guess, as it's using the GPS function of the phone so classed as DMD.

 

[palindromicbob]

Use as a communication device is fine but the club may have local regulations in place restricting this.

Use to access information that was created prior to the round, such as a chart of club distances on a word file or the Rules of Golf is fine. This is regardless of what other apps may be on it.

See decision 14-3/16 for more info. The joint statement is also worth checking.

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2010/August/Joint-Statement-on-Electronic-Devices.aspx


Use of a DMD is only allowed if the local rule is in place and the device has no other apps or features or sensors that would make it non compliant. Most flagship phones fall down on the sensors as they feature barometers, thermometers etc. Even if there is no app to access the information these sensors can provide the presence of them on the phone is enough to deem it non-conforming within the current rules.

 

[rulefan]

This is what England Golf has to say.

6. Mobile phones used as DMDs. Be very, very careful! Many people download a DMD “App” on to their phones. In itself, not a problem. The problem is this: If your phone has any other features or Apps which don’t conform and the phone is used as a DMD, you will be disqualified whether or not such features or Apps are used. Just having one on the phone makes the use of that phone as a DMD “illegal”. The owner may not realise it but many mobile phones have, for instance, a compass or spirit level as a feature. If your phone has a weather App or facility which gauges actual temperature or wind speed, it’s a disqualification. Again, it doesn’t matter whether that feature or App is used or not. It’s worth quoting from the England Golf Men’s “Hard Card” (Standard Local Rules etc.):

“Advice on the use of mobile phones as a distance measuring device: Because of problems over whether a particular phone conforms to the Local Rule and, therefore, to protect players from the risk of disqualification, (England Golf) strongly recommends that mobile phones are not used as distance measuring devices”.

7. Mobile phones used as phones. Clubs may not restrict the type of DMD a player uses, as long as it is a conforming DMD (1 above). However, a Club can have a “regulation” on using phones – as phones. England Golf has the following regulation:

“Mobile phones (including pagers and similar devices): May not be used on the course (including on practice days) by players or caddies for making/sending or receiving calls or texts, except in cases of emergency”.

England Golf would take disciplinary action against a player for breach of this regulation. England Golf is very happy for players to carry mobile phones in their golf bags, so that, if there is an emergency, they can phone the office, pro shop, emergency service etc.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Think it's safer to carry the RandA Rule book in my bag, cheers guys

 

[rulefan]

Most flagship phones fall down on the sensors as they feature barometers, thermometers etc. Even if there is no app to access the information these sensors can provide the presence of them on the phone is enough to deem it non-conforming within the current rules.

From a senior member of the USGA Rules dept re the flowchart.

http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/Downloads and Free Publications/2014/DMD flowchart v2_Jan 14.ashx

You bring up an excellent point. You’lI be comforted to learn that some brilliant rules minds have asked the same question, so you’re in good company!! I believe the confusion rests with the flowchart and how it’s presented and the wording.


On the “Multi-functional device" side of the flowchart, it delineates between the functionality of the device and the functionality of the actual distance-measuring application. It may sound like semantics, but you have to remember that the term "multi-functional device", extends beyond smartphones. This is accomplished in the flowchart by asking two questions:


1) “Is the distance-measuring application capable of measuring conditions or providing information other than distance (e.g. wind speed, temperature… ?”. If the distance-measuring application isn’t capable of measuring or providing any other information, then…

2) “Does the device contain other applications or features that, if referenced at any time during the round, might assist the player in his play… ?”


Therefore, if the actual distance-measuring app, provides slope, wind speed, temperature, etc., the device, as a DMD, doesn’t conform with the Rules, because the app itself doesn’t comply…. go directly to jail, do not pass Go and do not collect $200!! However, if the distance-measuring app does comply, i.e., only measures distance, then the player may use the device provided none of the "non-compliant” apps are accessed during the round.


Essentially, we’re trying to protect players (i.e., not trap them), who use smartphones as DMDs and the phone has other apps installed which may be a breach of the Rules. Provided the player doesn’t access those other apps… no harm, no foul.


Let me know of this helps.


Regards,

.....


And the R&A have this to say. Note the second question in particular.

Q. If a player uses his smartphone to look up a weather forecast, is the player gauging the conditions?
No. Accessing weather reports provided by a weather station through an app or internet browser, is not considered to beactively measuring or gauging the conditions and is permissible.

Q. My smartphone has an inbuilt spirit level as part of the functionality of the phone but it is not part of the distance-measuring app. Can I use the phone as a distance-measuring device?
Yes, provided that you do not use the level in a manner that might assist you in your play.

 

[Colin L]

Just a minor tweak to the England Golf advice Rulefan posted which must have been written before the 2014-15 Decisions came out. The presence of a compass on a device or its use is no longer against the rules.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks Colin, I missed that. It was written earlier.

 

[palindromicbob]

From a senior member of the USGA Rules dept re the flowchart.

http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/Downloads and Free Publications/2014/DMD flowchart v2_Jan 14.ashx

You bring up an excellent point. You’lI be comforted to learn that some brilliant rules minds have asked the same question, so you’re in good company!! I believe the confusion rests with the flowchart and how it’s presented and the wording.


On the “Multi-functional device" side of the flowchart, it delineates between the functionality of the device and the functionality of the actual distance-measuring application. It may sound like semantics, but you have to remember that the term "multi-functional device", extends beyond smartphones. This is accomplished in the flowchart by asking two questions:


1) “Is the distance-measuring application capable of measuring conditions or providing information other than distance (e.g. wind speed, temperature… ?”. If the distance-measuring application isn’t capable of measuring or providing any other information, then…

2) “Does the device contain other applications or features that, if referenced at any time during the round, might assist the player in his play… ?”


Therefore, if the actual distance-measuring app, provides slope, wind speed, temperature, etc., the device, as a DMD, doesn’t conform with the Rules, because the app itself doesn’t comply…. go directly to jail, do not pass Go and do not collect $200!! However, if the distance-measuring app does comply, i.e., only measures distance, then the player may use the device provided none of the "non-compliant” apps are accessed during the round.


Essentially, we’re trying to protect players (i.e., not trap them), who use smartphones as DMDs and the phone has other apps installed which may be a breach of the Rules. Provided the player doesn’t access those other apps… no harm, no foul.


Let me know of this helps.


Regards,

.....



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They will need to get stuff straight then because when I asked this last year in March.

Hi,
I am just writing to enquire about the status of a barometer in a multifunction device.

With recent clarification of the rule regarding DMD's it has opened up the floodgate but also raises a few additional question. As I understand going by the flowchart it fall down on the second part.

"Does the device contain other applications or features that, if referenced at any time during a round, might assist the player in his play (e.g. anemometer, thermometer or club recommendation)?"

The barometer would be able to provide air pressure which, like temperature, might assist a player in his play. Would this be a correct interpretation of the rules as they currently stand?

Thanks,


The response was.
Thank you for your e-mail of 19 March in which you raised a query on the Rules of Golf.

The use of distance-measuring devices during a stipulated round is contrary to the Rules of Golf; however, a Committee can permit them via a Local Rule.

If, there is any application or device on the multi-functional device that would allow the player to measure or gauge information such as slope, wind, temperature or club recommendation at the point where the player is standing - e.g. if there was say a device attached which measured wind speed at that specific point (as opposed the information just being part of a forecast) then the availability of that type of device or app would automatically render the device non-conforming as a distance measuring device irrespective of whether the app was used during the round.

I would, however point out that many (if not all) of these types of apps, including barometer apps are based on a forecast rather than actually measuring temperature etc at a particular point. If they are forecast based then again this would not cause a smartphone to be non-conforming when used as a distance measuring device. The temperature / barometer or anemometer apps would only render the device non-conforming if they are able to specifically measure the temperature or wind-speed at the point where the player is standing. This is as per decision 14-3/18.

I trust this is of some assistance, however, please let me know if you have any further questions

Plus this response specifically to barometers in June.

Does a barometer capable of measuring air pressure at a specific location deem a multifunction device non-compliant as a DMD?

If a barometer on a multifunctional device is capable of measuring air pressure at a specific location, rather than just being an estimate of pressure based on a forecast then you are correct, that would deem a multifunctional device non-compliant as a DMD.


Tbh honest I prefer the stance of the response you have posted because that pretty much means all phones are fine just be careful with apps. Much simpler stance to take. But the response's I've received would indicate that a device capable of measuring conditions rather than simply drawing down info from the net would not comply regardless of use or not. Plus I would like to know why it basically contradicts the Note included on the flow chart. NOTE: Even if the additional information is not used or is disabled / switched off. And why do they have this on the flow chart if the response you've posted is actually the way to go.


They have a long way to go in clarification of these rules with regards to multifunction devices.

 

[rulefan]

p-bob

I must admit I find that very surprising. I have discussed this with the R&A many times (but admittedly not recently).

Would it be possible to PM me with the name of the person who responded to you?
Don't publish it here of course.

The problem would seem to lie in the wording or understanding of the two lower RHS diamonds.

 

[palindromicbob]

p-bob

I must admit I find that very surprising. I have discussed this with the R&A many times (but admittedly not recently).

Would it be possible to PM me with the name of the person who responded to you?
Don't publish it here of course.

The problem would seem to lie in the wording or understanding of the two lower RHS diamonds.

Will do. Clarification would be excellent because it could mean that my list of compliant phones is no longer required and could focus towards apps instead .


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W-IXKgTiFbh7uvQmBd2nKdYAC2dV-R_Sb0455m2orck/edit?usp=sharing