Mobile Phone debate vote

[CVG]

I was a bit surprised but pleased to see my letter, about mobile phones, printed in the latest edition and I note the editor's reply. So the non use of mobile phones is now going to cause an increase in membership fees, really? I don't agree.
I just wondered as the poll is currently showing a 2/3rds vote against his stance whether he is willing to admit that most golfers don't feel they should be used on the course.

 

[MikeH]

Hi CVG

I am indeed losing the vote at the moment so, yes of course the majority of people who have voted to date don't agree with me.

However, that doesn't mean one side is right and the other is wrong. Whether golf clubs should relax rules on mobile phones is a matter of opinion... hence why we chose it for a topic to a debate.

What is not opinion, but fact, is that the game in the UK and Ireland is suffering from dwindling club memberships and participation numbers in general. That trend is putting clubs under financial pressure.

All the research I see and anecdotal information I hear from speaking to golfers, golf clubs, golf unions and the governing bodies shows this decline is down to three things...

1. Cost - Golf isn't a cheap game to play and at a time when most people have less disposable income in their pocket then items or activities that are classified as discretionary spend is suffering.
2. Time - In an era where we're working ever longer hours combined with changing family responsibilities mean most people have less time available to pursue their hobbies a game that takes you away from your job/family for around 5 hours at a time is becoming increasingly incompatible with the modern world.
3. Accessibility - Golf is still seen as being an elitist game for men that is characterised by out of date rules and attitudes that do not welcome women, children or indeed anyone who doesn't want, or is unable to conform to the traditional membership structure of paying a lump sum up front regardless of how often you play.

It's my belief that not allowing golfers to carry a mobile phone (switched to silent, only to be used when it's really necessary and at a point where you are not affecting other golfers) so if needed they can be contacted or receive a message regarding their work or family commitments then you are making it harder for them to play as often as they'd like.

If you make it harder for people to play the game or play as often as they would like to then participation numbers WILL fall. If that happens the shortfall in income clubs face will be passed on to people like you and me and everyone else on this forum in terms of higher subs, green fees, beer prices etc.

Whether we get hit with these rises next year or three years down the line is the only variable we don't know. I'd suspect we will really feel it in a couple of years time when (hopefully) we're out of this recession and clubs feel they get rises through without it casing even more people to lapse their memberships, not play as often as they'd like or stop having a beer after the game.

So, on its own, golf clubs not relaxing rules on mobile phones, isn't going to cause your subs to rise but as part of the game of golf not recognising the changing needs of the market and adapting to address them, it's my opinion that it will.

 

[freddielong]

I don't mind if they rise as long as it stops these self important people disrupting our game

 

[Smiffy]

So how would it have been looked on if Tom Watson had taken an important call on his mobile phone during the final round of the Open?
Surely a professional golfers time is just as important to him as Joe Bloggs, owner of the local builders?
We are in a recession. Golf club membership is dwindling because of this and nothing else. People are having to "cut their cloth" accordingly. Some are running their cars longer rather than change them every two years, some are going without holidays etc.
I don't think the attitude towards mobile phones on golf courses has anything to do with the reduced numbers of people playing the game.
I personally think too many golf clubs have got too greedy over the subscription charges and green fees that they charge. If you compare the cost of greens fees with the general rate of inflation and wage increases over the years, I'm surprised more haven't gone pop.

 

[snake]

I always carry my phone on the course with me, on silent of course,and the reason is simple. It's not "self importance" and its not to be contacted be family or work, but for safety. I was with an unfortunate gentleman who was struck on the head with a ball and none of the 3 ball or the groups nearby had a phone. This meant a long run to the club house to call an ambulance which caused unneccessary delays in making the 999 call. The problems lay with inconsiderate people who misuse them on the course, but aren't the they ones who are inconsiderate regardless of their choosen weapon?

 

[MikeH]

Smiffy

golf club memberships have been on the decline for the last decade, the recession is accelerating the decline but it was happening even when we were in the boom years. The reason for that is a combination of the three points I outlined above. Cost, time and accessibility.

I'd agree with you that cost is a major factor - hence whey the picture in Scotland where golf is much more affordable is still healthy (although club memberships In Scotland are still down 2.6% this year and the situation is forecasted to worsen in 2010) but the issues of time and accessibility still remain significant factors.

I agree the attitude of a lot of clubs to mobile phones and their place in modern society is a fairly minor thing but when you combine it with things like a myriad of other things like inflexible membership solutions, the time it takes to play a round of golf, outdated dress regulations, attitudes to lady and junior golfers, visitors being made to park in different car parks and being asked to use substandard changing facilities make the game of golf seem inaccessible and out of step with modern life.

With regard to professional golfers being contacted on the course I think it's very unlikely. Professional golfers are after all doing their job by playing in the tournament but I think the fact Ross Fisher was primed to take a call in the event his wife went into labour backs up my view that there are circumstances where you need to be contacted while on the golf course.

 

[GB72]

In my opinion, as far as my course is concerned, a mobile on silent is essential. The course is one loop of 18 holes so if there were any form of emergency then you could be up to 2 miles from the club house. There is, however, a half way house and I would have thought that being able to use phones when there would be acceptable. I suppose my issue with the use of mobiles, aside from noise etc, couples in with the problems relating to speed of play. I am fairly certain that groups would not step aside to let others through whilst one takes a 'quick call'. If phones were to be allowed then I would look to a local rule allowing calls to be taken only on the proviso that the whole group either walks to the side of the hole and waits for a convenient spot to rejoin the course once the call has finished or waits until the end of the hole then, again, lets all groups through for the duration of the call.

Looking at the cost issue though, I would have thought that allowing mobile calls to be taken would require on course marshalling to ensure that the course is not being held up and that would cost for those courses that currently do not feel the need for marshalling.

It is a tricky point and in many cases I suppose that there would not be an issue but the problem is trusting all groups to use their phones responsibly and keep up standards of etiquette.

 

[viscount17]

I suspect that the majority of golfers carry a phone irrespective of any ruling. unfortunately not all switch them to silent.

There are far more and better reasons for course marshals than phone use, and they haven't caused marshals to be employed. Far too many courses are interested only in packing them in, and the pro's have no interest either.

Local Rule is I think the only way, though how to deal with the guy who treats a tee as his office space without resorting to the Luton solution remains to be found.

 

[clubchamp07]

I was against them to start with but if someone needs their phone then let them carry it. I play with guys who carry them, one for work reasons and the other so that his wife can keep an eye on his score. I dont mind the guy who needs his phone for work, but the guy who always rings or receives a phone call from his wife just gets up my nose.

 

[Imurg]

I carry mine at all times. Its on silent in the bag and I'll only check it if I'm expecting an important message. But I won't answer a call. That's what voicemail is for!
I also need to check mine from occasionally as I don't wear a watch and its my only means of keeping track of the time.

I do see people organising their social lives on the course and these people should be strung up from the nearest tree and pelted with TopFlites!!

 

[Leftie]

I always carry my phone on the course with me, on silent of course,and the reason is simple. It's not "self importance" and its not to be contacted be family or work, but for safety. I was with an unfortunate gentleman who was struck on the head with a ball and none of the 3 ball or the groups nearby had a phone. This meant a long run to the club house to call an ambulance which caused unneccessary delays in making the 999 call.

I agree that it's ok to carry one on the course for emergencies, but why is it necessary to have it switched on?

 

[CVG]

I agree the attitude of a lot of clubs to mobile phones and their place in modern society is a fairly minor thing but when you combine it with things like a myriad of other things like inflexible membership solutions, the time it takes to play a round of golf, outdated dress regulations, attitudes to lady and junior golfers, visitors being made to park in different car parks and being asked to use substandard changing facilities make the game of golf seem inaccessible and out of step with modern life.

I agree that the use of mobile phones is if anything a very minor factor in the rising costs and falling memberships as you correctly list other factors above. But........
I also agree with the majority who find them intrusive, and this is my main point in this debate, why should players be able to disrupt others, because they have different pressures on their business or personnal lives? They are out playing a a game if the pressures are to much that the phone must be on and used, maybe they should reconsider why they are out there. Using the modern jargon, get the work / play balance right.

Yes I have to conceed that carrying a mobile phone, is sensible for the emergencies senario, nobody can deny that.

 

[slugger]

I always have my phone with me on the course... Mostly because it has Freecaddie on it, but also in case of emergency. When using Freecaddie, i always have it switched to "flight mode" which means it can't take or receive calls/messages.

Golf is a different game than it was before mobile phones came along. Embrace the technology, but if you don't want to, don't moan about other people doing so.

Having said all that, anyone with a phone that rings on the course at any kind of volume should be poked in the eye with a tee!

 

[Fyldewhite]

Very interesting debate.

Like it or not, we do live in the modern world and all that we should be asking is that people have respect for and consider other people in all their conduct. It's simple to put phones on a meeting setting and it IS the people who are the problem NOT the phones. These rules are penalising everyone because a small element cannot behave with a bit of consideration.
In fact most people who do put their phones on silent simply break the rules all the time and nobody even notices !

 

[Toad]

Thankfully my course has not banned the mobile phone, if it had I would not be able to play 1 week in 3 as I am on call.

I always explain to my playing partners before starting that I have to check the phone regularly and may need to leave in the middle of a round, only happened once since March so not too bad.

I think as long as it's on silent and your partners don't object what harm can it possibly cause.

The people that say you should leave the outside world behind when you step on the first tee are obviously very lucky that they can drop everything for a game of golf, but others have work and family commitments that can change at a moments notice and so out of necessity rather than ignorance as some suggest need their mobile phones.

 

[MikeH]

CVG I do wholeheartedly agree on the intrusive aspect of phones - you'll recall I listed being disturbed by a mobile while at the top of your backswing as the most irritating thing that can happen on the course
However I have always said for them only to be allowed on if they are silent mode which wont disrupt anyone.
You can then discreetly check your phone a few times during the round for messages and only respond (via text message/email should be fine in 90&% of cases) if it really can't wait until after the round.
I fully appreciate the above scenario does need people to respect their fellow golfers and remember to turn phones to silent when they get to the club

 

[Fyldewhite]

you'll recall I listed being disturbed by a mobile while at the top of your backswing as the most irritating thing that can happen on the course

Yes, we've all been there but mobiles are only a small part of the problem. I wish zips on bags (or even my playing partners on occasion) had a silent mode !!

 

[bignev]

Always leave mine in the car. I play golf to enjoy the round not wonder if someone is trying to ring me. Most things can wait until you finish the round.

 

[haplesshacker]

For once I reckon that Mike is spot on here regarding this one. (I've had my disagreements in the past, so this is a refreshing change!)

No-ones advocating umpteen calls regarding which pub you're meeting your mates at later. But having a young family and possibly a new business to run in the near future, I'll keep checking mine regularly, though so as not to interrupt play. Yes, it will also be on silent. However, incoming calls do interrupt Freecaddie quite badly!

If a call does require my undivided attention then it's important enough to leave the course for. My wife knows better than to interupt my game for something silly and will only call if I am required back at home or down at casualty. As to work, golf is likely to be my only break from it. Potentially as a one-man band, I can't ignore some calls. Though I'll always check with my playing partners.

As with so much else, common sense and moderation.

 

[colint]

I always carry mine, switched to silent. In my job I work 12 hours some days, and maybe 6 on others. So on the days I finish at 3 or 4, I sneak off for 9 holes. I'm still officially "on the clock", so need to contactable regarless of what other work I've done that week. The majority of use I get from the club is these short sessions. Honestly if I couldn't take my phone, I couldn't get these games in and wouldn't have joined the club.

When I do play a full round at the weekend, I want to know that the missus could contact me if needed as I've got 2 young kids.

It's not a case of being "self important", it's a case of working 60 hours a week and having a young family. If you can disappear from the world for half a day to play golf I envy you, but I can't and if it's no phone then I'll be disappearing from golf as much as I love it, it doesn't pay my mortgage or pick my kids up if they need me.

Lets keep this in perspective and not get too precious about it, some of the comments are making Monty look easy going and hard to ruffle