Matchplay Penalties

[sam85]

Played a match yesterday where a couple of rules queries popped up.

Firstly our opponents tried claiming on the 2nd tee that they had won the 1st hole because my partner had broke a branch on his backswing on the previous hole. A couple of issues here, my partner was pretty adamant that he had not broken any branches, so it was kind of 1 persons word against another situation, so not sure how to proceed here. Secondly are you able to call the penalty standing on the next tee? I mean the hole could potentially of played out very differently had either myself or my partner been aware that they had breached said rule.

Later on in the match one of our opponents was out of the hole and the other in a greenside bunker. The one in the greenside bunker hit it in a bush and didn't find his ball. He then claimed he couldn't drop back in the bunker as he had already raked it, now I was pretty sure that this wasn't the case but his head was gone by this point so there was no reasoning with him.

 

[duncan mackie]

Firstly, read rule 2-5 regarding claims and disputed claims.

Secondly he can either drop in the bunker or concede the hole...

 

[rulefan]

Re the 2nd point, this decision covers it.

Ball Played from Bunker Is Out of Bounds or Lost; Player Tests Condition of Bunker or Smooths Footprints Before Dropping Another Ball in Bunker

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-13,d13-4-37

 

[sam85]

Thanks I was fairly sure I was right about the bunker but he wasn't interested.

I've read that rule 2-5 and to be honest I'm none the wiser.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks I was fairly sure I was right about the bunker but he wasn't interested.

I've read that rule 2-5 and to be honest I'm none the wiser.

The relevant bit of 2-5 is that a claim must be made before any player has played from the next tee. No ruling is made at this point but the matter must be reported to the committee at the completion of the round. They will then make a ruling

 

[sam85]

The relevant bit of 2-5 is that a claim must be made before any player has played from the next tee. No ruling is made at this point but the matter must be reported to the committee at the completion of the round. They will then make a ruling

A claim relating to a prior hole in the match may only be considered by the Committee if it is based on facts previously unknown to the player making the claim and he had been given wrong information (Rules 6-2a or 9) by an opponent.

It was this part that confused me, it seems pretty clear that the player making the claim was aware of all the facts.

As an aside this was a match played at an away course organised by a company online so there was no committee as such readily available.

 

[rulefan]

A claim relating to a prior hole in the match may only be considered by the Committee if it is based on facts previously unknown to the player making the claim and he had been given wrong information (Rules 6-2a or 9) by an opponent.

It was this part that confused me, it seems pretty clear that the player making the claim was aware of all the facts.

As an aside this was a match played at an away course organised by a company online so there was no committee as such readily available.

The reference to 'a prior hole' is a hole that has been completed. Until the next hole has started (in this case the 2nd) the 1st is not a prior hole (it is the current hole)

 

[sam85]

The reference to 'a prior hole' is a hole that has been completed. Until the next hole has started (in this case the 2nd) the 1st is not a prior hole (it is the current hole)

So in essence if you see an opponent break a rule you are under no obligation to inform thim of this rule breach immediately as long as you inform them you are going to make a claim before the next hole begins? This doesn't seem like it can be right to me as this potential penalty would completely change how a pair may play a hole.

 

[backwoodsman]

So in essence if you see an opponent break a rule you are under no obligation to inform thim of this rule breach immediately as long as you inform them you are going to make a claim before the next hole begins? This doesn't seem like it can be right to me as this potential penalty would completely change how a pair may play a hole.

Not sure l follow the argument?

If you see an opponent break a rule, then why would you wait to call it? As imposing a penalty will put your opponent at a disadvantage in playing out the hole (if not actually causing the loss of the hole).

The point of 2/5 is about when the two parties either don't agree a rule is broken, or don't know if a rule is broken - and 2/5 limits the amount of time for which the "dispute" can go on. You have to advise your opponent of your "claim" before the next hole starts - or that's it, you have to let it lie.

 

[anotherdouble]

As an aside had a rule been broken in the op. As it's stated that a branch was broken in the backswing. Well if the stroke was completed (not mentioned) then there is no penalty or so I thought. If this was the case, were the opponents pulling a fast one

 

[Hosel Fade]

As an aside had a rule been broken in the op. As it's stated that a branch was broken in the backswing. Well if the stroke was completed (not mentioned) then there is no penalty or so I thought. If this was the case, were the opponents pulling a fast one

This and even if it were a practice swing the breaking of the branch in and of itself does not constitute a penalty. It would have to materially improve the area of his intended swing.

 

[sam85]

This and even if it were a practice swing the breaking of the branch in and of itself does not constitute a penalty. It would have to materially improve the area of his intended swing.

The whole thing was farcical to be honest, first of all on the 2nd tee one of the guys said his partner saw it. Then later on after 9 holes when the situation was being argued again suddenly they had both seen it as it was like an earthquake this branch falling apparently.

 

[sam85]

Not sure l follow the argument?

If you see an opponent break a rule, then why would you wait to call it? As imposing a penalty will put your opponent at a disadvantage in playing out the hole (if not actually causing the loss of the hole).

The point of 2/5 is about when the two parties either don't agree a rule is broken, or don't know if a rule is broken - and 2/5 limits the amount of time for which the "dispute" can go on. You have to advise your opponent of your "claim" before the next hole starts - or that's it, you have to let it lie.

Well in pairs match play it could of course still have a bearing on the hole as we both were unaware of a rule being breached so while my partner may of been disadvantaged I played the hole differently unaware of any rules infringement from my partner.