Match play result possible issue???

[stevelev]

I played in Match play comp last night.

Prior to setting off onto the course, I asked the assistant pro in the shop if it was legal for my oppo to mark a card for the Summer 9-Holer League whilst we played our Match. The assistant pro said he cant see any reason why not.

I signed in for the league and said if I find out I'm not allowed to submit a card I will use the entry fee next week. The assistant pro said that will be fine. We played the match putting out on every hole and no penalties or rulings where involved throughout the 18 holes. Every putt was holed out by both of us on agreement from the 1st tee.

I won on the 18th hole, after being AS on the 17th. When we got into the club house, both myself and oppo checked with other members about using card for Thurs league. We were told that this couldn't be done so I ripped up the card for the Thursday leauge. I went straight through to the pro-shop but it was closed so I could not strike my name of the list. Today I've been absolutely bombed out in work from 7 am, I did try to call between meetings but no answer from club. I worked until 6pm when I set off home. As soon as I got in again I tried to call the shop to sort out. No answer.

I text my oppo for the next round to follow up from the text I sent him last night to arrange the next match. He said that he did not want to arrange anything until I have spoke to another member at the club. Not sure what to make of this, as I never actually submitted my scores for the Thursday league which is non-qualifier.

Does anybody have any advice, as my oppo from 1st round agreed that I had won, and I did check with shop and other members and as a result of the conflicting information I received, I decided to void myself from league. My oppo from 1st round agreed that it was ok for me to go through to next round.

Views please.

 

[louise_a]

It is against the rules to play match play the same time as playing stroke play.

 

[duncan mackie]

Whilst you would be DQ from the strike play event you are not subject to DQ from the matchplay - however your result isn't valid and the tie will need to be resolved.
If your opponent, knowing this, has conceded the tie ( which taking into account the advice you were given I would expect 'a good guy' to do, then you should go through on that concession.
Clubs really need to sort out who is able to advise whom on what - you in this case, but it could be anyone and much more contentious, will get more than frustrated if you are seemingly advised by people with the implied authority of the committee...

 

[chrisd]

Whilst you would be DQ from the strike play event you are not subject to DQ from the matchplay - however your result isn't valid and the tie will need to be resolved.
If your opponent, knowing this, has conceded the tie ( which taking into account the advice you were given I would expect 'a good guy' to do, then you should go through on that concession.
Clubs really need to sort out who is able to advise whom on what - you in this case, but it could be anyone and much more contentious, will get more than frustrated if you are seemingly advised by people with the implied authority of the committee...

It strikes me Duncan that most clubs don't worry unduly about anyone learning the rules and being on hand to give rulings, golf committees don't run competitions and certainly don't often give correct decisions. I've asked about rules courses at even County level and no one seems interested in helping. It's no wonder that players don't know or adhere to the rules and that the myths of the rules abound

An Indian mate of mine says that his club over in India, had 3 members who were rules guys and at least one was always on hand, in person or by telephone to give a ruling when required

 

[backwoodsman]

I have a similar - but reverse - question to the OP.

A bit back we had a strokeplay comp at the club. Four guys went out as a fourball. Two had entered the comp and two had not. All four "accepted" or "agreed" they were playing strokeplay and that they would play strictly to strokeplay rules, but that they would also have a "match" between themselves based on the outcome of individual holes. The two in the comp versus the two not in it.

The strokeplay event was a formal club comp but the match was not - although it had a sort of "semi-official" standing as one of the pairs has a rolling challenge through the year against any pair willing to take them on - the results of which are displayed in the club although the only "prize" at the end of the year is bragging rights for the pair with the best victory over the "standing pair".

Should the scores stand for the two who played in the comp? And had they been victorious in the "match", should they get the bragging rights at the end of the year (if the margin of victory was good enough that is)?

 

[Fish]

Clubs really need to sort out who is able to advise whom on what - you in this case, but it could be anyone and much more contentious, will get more than frustrated if you are seemingly advised by people with the implied authority of the committee...

I hear and read about more and more situations where Pro's are being asked about rules advice and at times, unfortunately more times than not, they get it wrong!

Should Pro's attempt to be helpful or should they always refer everyone to the Handicap/Competition secretary?

When Pro's acquire their PGA status, do they not cover the rules of golf in depth as part of that accreditation, if not, why not, or is a Pro just a very good golfer whom takes a qualification to be able to teach golf and run a professional shop selling golf merchandise?

As much as we won't our Pro's to be ever helpful they can at times be on a hiding to nothing, so for me, they should remove themselves from being drawn into rulings and always refer an enquiry to a nominated committee member for an official response.

 

[chrisd]

I hear and read about more and more situations where Pro's are being asked about rules advice and at times, unfortunately more times than not, they get it wrong!

Should Pro's attempt to be helpful or should they always refer everyone to the Handicap/Competition secretary?

When Pro's acquire their PGA status, do they not cover the rules of golf in depth as part of that accreditation, if not, why not, or is a Pro just a very good golfer whom takes a qualification to be able to teach golf and run a professional shop selling golf merchandise?

As much as we won't our Pro's to be ever helpful they can at times be on a hiding to nothing, so for me, they should remove themselves from being drawn into rulings and always refer an enquiry to a nominated committee member for an official response.

My experience has been that the pro is the last person you should go to for anything but the most simple of decision. I also have belonged to 2 golf clubs and haven't been aware of anyone, in either, club who is knowledgeable enough to give a ruling and be fairly sure of getting it right. It's funny, we have a rules section on this forum where everything from easy decisions to the most complicated ones are discussed, usually where bad decisions at a club are involved, but most clubs don't have specified and trained rules advisors - at least to the best of my knowledge. I wonder how many competitions are won by people who ride roughshod over the rules?

 

[Colin L]

Rule 33-1 and Decision 33-1/6 couldn't be clearer about not mixing match play and stroke play.

Personally, I would't be at all exercised if a couple of players sat down in the bar after a stroke play competition and worked out that on the basis of the scores, one of them would have won 3 & 2 or whatever and the "loser" had to buy the pints. That's not combining the two formats on the course and the "match" calculation has no wider outcome . Your match play set-up seems, however, to have some sort of status even though not a formal competition, and was, I think, on the go during the round as opposed to being a calculation after the event. I suspect if faced with a club decision, I would be saying 33-1/6 has to be applied. A major factor in that would be to keep things clear in order to avoid the kind of precedent that could lead to difficult decisions in the future - especially if the boundaries were being pushed.

 

[duncan mackie]

I have a similar - but reverse - question to the OP.

A bit back we had a strokeplay comp at the club. Four guys went out as a fourball. Two had entered the comp and two had not. All four "accepted" or "agreed" they were playing strokeplay and that they would play strictly to strokeplay rules, but that they would also have a "match" between themselves based on the outcome of individual holes. The two in the comp versus the two not in it.

The strokeplay event was a formal club comp but the match was not - although it had a sort of "semi-official" standing as one of the pairs has a rolling challenge through the year against any pair willing to take them on - the results of which are displayed in the club although the only "prize" at the end of the year is bragging rights for the pair with the best victory over the "standing pair".

Should the scores stand for the two who played in the comp? And had they been victorious in the "match", should they get the bragging rights at the end of the year (if the margin of victory was good enough that is)?

There was no match that may have required a ruling; the only issue hen remains that the rules of an individual stroke play event were followed (but i have yet to observe such games when not one 'partner' asks for, or offers, advice during the whole 18 holes!)

 

[Foxholer]

I hear and read about more and more situations where Pro's are being asked about rules advice and at times, unfortunately more times than not, they get it wrong!

Should Pro's attempt to be helpful or should they always refer everyone to the Handicap/Competition secretary?

When Pro's acquire their PGA status, do they not cover the rules of golf in depth as part of that accreditation, if not, why not, or is a Pro just a very good golfer whom takes a qualification to be able to teach golf and run a professional shop selling golf merchandise?

As much as we won't our Pro's to be ever helpful they can at times be on a hiding to nothing, so for me, they should remove themselves from being drawn into rulings and always refer an enquiry to a nominated committee member for an official response.

Actually, I find that more often than not Pros get rulings right! But they should never be put in the situation of having to make this sort of ruling - as clearly it is wrong! And the effect of a wrong ruling can be relatively catastrophic!

So I agree! Unless suitably qualified, Pros should simply be the provider of the Rule Book and the provider of the contact phone number of the person who can make a ruling!