Karl102
Journeyman Pro
Played today and I was on fringe, just off the green. My PP was in the rough and his ball was directly behind mine. He asked me to mark my ball, even though it was off the green.
Is this allowed?!?
Is this allowed?!?
Marking a ball off the green
- Thread starter Karl102
- Start date
louise_a
Money List Winner
You cant mark off the green unless asked to do so by a FC so in your case it was fine.
louise_a
Money List Winner
You can't however clean your ball, if I remember correctly.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Louise has this correct.
You can have any ball marked if it interferes at any time - rule 22 covers.
When requested to mark your ball by a FC under this Rule you are not permitted to clean it.
chellie
Tour Winner
Best way I've found is to hold the ball between a finger and thumb and hold it way out from you so you can't be accused of cleaning it.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
I go further and put it back on the grass out of the way while I'm waiting.
I just know that one time I'd be on auto pilot and wipe it.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Sounds a good scheme - until the day you are on auto pilot and play from where you put it down out of the way.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Sounds a good scheme - until the day you are on auto pilot and play from where you put it down out of the way.
:rofl:
I just know I'm going to do that one day now. Thankfully it's not often the situation happens.
Karl102
Journeyman Pro
Thanks
cliveb
Head Pro
Stick a tee peg behind it when you put it down?Sounds a good scheme - until the day you are on auto pilot and play from where you put it down out of the way.
(Related but slightly OT - when I am asked to move my marker on the green, I always turn it upside down to remind me to put it back.)
woody69
Journeyman Pro
You can clean it now preferred lies/winter rules are in place though. (assuming they actually are as they are at our course) (just to complicate matters)
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
If my ball is in the light rough with a huge dollop of earth on the side I am going to hit - I cannot pick and clean as I am not on a close mown part of the course. The ball of a PP or FC to play first sits fairly close behind me. Three (linked) questions:
1) My PP/FC asks me to mark and lift my ball. I do so. I cannot clean it as I am not on a close mown part of course. Do I have to replace it exactly as I picked it - with the dollop of mud to be struck - or can I replace the ball with the mud away from the strike?
2) My PP/FC does not absolutely need me to mark and lift my ball; can I encourage him to ask me to do so? I might ask this on grounds that I don't want there to be any risk of my ball being hit by his.
3) Is there any definition of how far the balls have to be apart for the forward one to deemed to be one that can be asked to be marked and lifted
1) My PP/FC asks me to mark and lift my ball. I do so. I cannot clean it as I am not on a close mown part of course. Do I have to replace it exactly as I picked it - with the dollop of mud to be struck - or can I replace the ball with the mud away from the strike?
2) My PP/FC does not absolutely need me to mark and lift my ball; can I encourage him to ask me to do so? I might ask this on grounds that I don't want there to be any risk of my ball being hit by his.
3) Is there any definition of how far the balls have to be apart for the forward one to deemed to be one that can be asked to be marked and lifted
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UlyssesSky
Head Pro
The rules only say the ball "must be placed on the spot from which it was lifted or moved" (20-3) but don't say anything about the orientation of the ball itself, so I guess you can place the ball however you like, as long as it is in the same spot you picked it from.
You can actually lift the ball without asking him, at least if you can (reasonably) claim your ball is assisting your PP/FC (22-1).
I wouldn't encourage him to ask you to do so, however. This might be seen as a work-around to allow you to lift your ball without penalty (which it is...), carried out by you and your playing partner by agreeing to lift a ball even though it's not absolutetly necessary. Which then would be almost equal to an agreement to waive a rule, and could have both of you DQed.
I'm actually surprised there is nothing in rule 22-2 for this situation, since 22-1 has a passage that deals with a comparable situation "if the comittee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any competitor, they are disqualified."
Marking and lifting are possible if the ball is either interfering with or assisting play.
If you're not putting or playing shots with lots of run it would be hard to argue that any ball that's not directly interfering with either your stand or your strike has to be lifted. So if you're not standing on it or it is more than max 1ft from your ball, I'd say leave it where it is.
A ball can be assisting with play most likely as an aid in aiming, which leaves a little more room.. If your ball is on a reasonable line of play for your PP and could be used as an intermediate target you could argue it's assisting with his play and lift it. Kind of depends on the situation, though. If he's pitching to the green from 20ft and your ball is halfway to the flag it may be hard to argue it's of great help. If he'S stuck behind a hill with no sight of the flag and your ball marks the line of play it may be assisting even though it's 40ft away.
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Colin L
Tour Winner
A few points to clarify.
You may require another player to lift his ball or lift your own ball if you think it is going to assist any other player in his play. Remember that in stroke play, the other player may opt to play his ball first, rather than lift it. [22-1]
You may have any other ball lifted which interferes with your play. Again, in stroke play, the player whose ball is to be lifted may opt to play it. [22-2]
If there is mud on a ball lifted under this rule, the ball may be placed such that the mud is not on the contact side of the ball, but cannot be "teed up†on the mud. [Decision 21/5]
If you are required to lift your ball under either of these rules from a closely mown area when preferred lies are in force, you must
either mark lift, not clean your ball and replace it when it is your turn to play and then proceed under the preferred lies rule (i.e. 2 separate actions);
or, in stroke play, opt to play first rather than lift and proceed under the preferred lies rule.
There is no point in trying to “work around†the rule in order to have an excuse to lift your ball just in case the other ball strikes it. If it did, you replace without penalty. If by striking your ball the other player might gain an advantage (e.g. its acting as a back stop behind the hole) you can have it lifted straightforwardly under the rule, anyway.
Regarding how far apart balls can be, take a look at Decisions 22/2 and 22/3
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-22,d22-2
As you’ll see the main criterion is reasonableness.
You may require another player to lift his ball or lift your own ball if you think it is going to assist any other player in his play. Remember that in stroke play, the other player may opt to play his ball first, rather than lift it. [22-1]
You may have any other ball lifted which interferes with your play. Again, in stroke play, the player whose ball is to be lifted may opt to play it. [22-2]
If there is mud on a ball lifted under this rule, the ball may be placed such that the mud is not on the contact side of the ball, but cannot be "teed up†on the mud. [Decision 21/5]
If you are required to lift your ball under either of these rules from a closely mown area when preferred lies are in force, you must
either mark lift, not clean your ball and replace it when it is your turn to play and then proceed under the preferred lies rule (i.e. 2 separate actions);
or, in stroke play, opt to play first rather than lift and proceed under the preferred lies rule.
There is no point in trying to “work around†the rule in order to have an excuse to lift your ball just in case the other ball strikes it. If it did, you replace without penalty. If by striking your ball the other player might gain an advantage (e.g. its acting as a back stop behind the hole) you can have it lifted straightforwardly under the rule, anyway.
Regarding how far apart balls can be, take a look at Decisions 22/2 and 22/3
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-22,d22-2
As you’ll see the main criterion is reasonableness.
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Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
If you want to lift your ball to prevent another player from using it as an intermediate target, what are you going to mark its position with?
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
This may sound pedantic, but I'm not deliberately being awkward.
Is it against the rules for somebody to play a shot whilst I'm in the process of cleaning my ball lifted under preferred lies?
It seems silly that I either have to wait until the other guy has played before I clean my ball, or play before him.
My usual routine for preferred lies is get to my ball, mark it, take it to my bag, clean it, figure distance and club, replace ball, take shot.
I just assumed I can be doing all of that whilst someone else is taking a shot, am I wrong?
UlyssesSky
Head Pro
Something that's not easily visible, e.g. a tee peg shoved so deep into the ground it completely disappears in the grass?
AmandaJR
Money List Winner
Sort of on topic but...winter rules and ball on fringe just off green. Can I put it back down as I would on the green - using the aligment marker to aid me?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Our local rule states clearly that after being marked and lifted, the ball may be replaced within 6" not on a green or in a hazard - but as already mentioned - the rules do not comment on precise alignment of the ball - just it's position.
AmandaJR
Money List Winner
Agreed. It's whether it can be replaced in such a way that the line on the ball helps with the chip or putt. I know it can't when marked under the OPs situation and wondered about under winter rules when I played yesterday.
Edit - or at least I think I know!
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