Low SSS courses..

[jammydodger]

Having read Parmos' post about his 49 pts but having his SSS something like 5'ish under the par it got me thinking. Also I played with a bloke yesterday who went to play in an inter club comp this year at a course where the SSS was 67 to a par of 70.

He said they played against 2 x 8 handicappers and got stuffed. His point was that at these courses you have to play 4 or 5 under h/c just to get cut so he felt that their h/c's were artificially high.

I had a think about it and I have to agree , I know these courses are probs quite short and not so difficult but if these 8 h/cs are regularly shooting 3 or 4 under h/c and not getting cut is that fair ??

What do you all think about this...its something I hadnt really thought about before ???

 

[Parmo]

Isnt the handicap worked out on the SSS and not Par? The problem with short courses is that they go against cat 1 players as they have to shoot under par every round to maintain their handicaps.

 

[RGDave]

My team got stuffed at Roundhay in 1996, not by Roundhay club as it happens, but by a club not 20 minutes drive away in Birmingham.
This team ALWAYS beat my team.....
Our course was long and tricky (par 69 sss 69), their's was par 72 but sss 68.
Our captain kept our heads up with the normal chat, but every week, these guys were going round their home course 3/4/5 under par nett and not getting cut.
It's a hard call.

 

[DCB]

As Parmo says CSS is the basis for the handicaps. The actual SSS will take into acount the shorter holes when computing the CSS for a comp.

We have a "par4" of 248 on the card which is actually equivalent to a par3 in a competition as the SSS is one below the par of the course.

You've still got to play the shots to get a good score, even on a shorter course

 

[stevek1969]

Must be pitch and putt tracks or seriously good Cat 1 players. My course is Par 71 css 72 up to 75.
The best one is Pitlochry Par 69 i think css 69 reading the card it looks short if you've never played it but stand on the first and get your hiking boots on a great course to play to your handicap

 

[StuartD]

My old club was par 68, SSS 65 and quite short. Think it was about 5200 yards as well. tbh i think most players handicaps are artificially low at the club. Not many of them go away from home and post a good score (cat 1's excepted). I was playing of 10 when i left and am now 13 and still going upwards

 

[Parmo]

Must be pitch and putt tracks or seriously good Cat 1 players. My course is Par 71 css 72 up to 75.
The best one is Pitlochry Par 69 i think css 69 reading the card it looks short if you've never played it but stand on the first and get your hiking boots on a great course to play to your handicap

I agree to an extent, but as for struggling away from home I disagree. Our course is short but all that means is we have cracking shorting games and that’s the main strength in golf.

Must be pitch and putt tracks or seriously good Cat 1 players.

Hole - Yardage - SSS

1 - 268 - 11 - Par 4
2 - 478 - 3 - Par 5
3 - 188 - 13 - Par 3
4 - 444 - 1 - Par 4
5 - 343 - 5 - Par 4
6 - 266 - 9 - Par 4
7 - 125 - 17 - Par 3
8 - 267 - 15 - Par 4
9 - 282 - 7 - Par 4

Obviously scratch goes up one shot each hole on the second nine. The course is set in mature parkland as well.

 

[Spoff]

It is a terrific track is Roundhay, only played it once mind.

The first is 'only' a 268 par 4 dogleg left, but there are trees tight down the left and goind for the green is out unless you have a good draw (or a lucky hook )

The par 5 has a raised green and anything long or right disappears, and it also has a couple of evil fairway bunkers!

The ninth stood out too, a tee shot between trees, hit the gap and you're quids in (so I'm told!)

 

[Parmo]

There never used to be a gap on the 9th, it was just trees about 30-40 yards tall. If anyone else I play with mentions that trees are 90% air

 

[Fyldewhite]

I think this is more of a perception of low SSS courses rather than a real issue. What matters for handicapping is the CSS for every comp. If for example the SSS is 68 then if the membership don't play to that SSS, the CSS will go up to 69 or maybe 70 week in week out. If this happens over time then there is a case for the SSS being changed as it is clearly wrong.

We had our yellow course assessed by the county last year as SSS 68 (par is 70). To test the assessment we played our summer league stableford off the yellows and have found the CSS has often been 67 as scoring has been really good but 38/39 points is only good enough for the buffer zone. Plenty of players are getting reductions though including single figure players.

 

[jammydodger]

I see both sides of the argument

1. The course is easier so scores should be lower and the h/c's will come down too

2. You can shoot 3 or 4 under par and not get cut, keeping your h/c artificially high. AT the end of the day youre still shooting well under PAR but not getting cut

Do either of these scenarios make your h/c false (higher or lower btw) ?

Would you expect to play under/over h/c on another course compared to someone playing a course with SSS 1 or 2 higher than par and probs getting cut more if they have a good round ?

Player 1 @ 8 h/c shoots a net 70 (par 72) on a course with CSS up to 73 but sss is usually 72
Player 2 @ 8 h/c shoots a net 68 (par 70) on a course with CSS 68 but sss 67

player 1 gets a good cut for his 2 under par, player 2 hits buffer for his 2 under par. Both CSS went up 1 shot. Player 1's h/c comes down and player 2's stays artificially high for shooting the same score

My conclusion is that h/cs stay higher than they should at courses with low SSS

 

[USER1999]

Hard to say, but I guess this is the reason American courses have a slope index which adjusts your handicap when you play away from home.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Player 1 @ 8 h/c shoots a net 70 (par 72) on a course with CSS up to 73 but sss is usually 72
Player 2 @ 8 h/c shoots a net 68 (par 70) on a course with CSS 68 but sss 67

player 1 gets a good cut for his 2 under par, player 2 hits buffer for his 2 under par. Both CSS went up 1 shot. Player 1's h/c comes down and player 2's stays artificially high for shooting the same score

Disagree.The above argument assumes that because they were both 2 under par then they played as good as each other because they shot the "same score". It ignores the fact that player 2's course is usually 5 shots easier. So player 1 clearly played much better and is cut accordingly. Why on earth would it be fair for them both to be cut when the courses are so different? You don't get cut for breaking par (which is notional and irrelevant to handicapping) but the CSS of the day. Player 1 did, player 2 didn't. There's nothing artificial about it, it's just the way the system works.