Lost ball, identification mandatory?

[Ian_S]

Just following on from the unplayable thread, someone mentioned a player could declare a ball in the middle of the fairway to be lost if they want.

Obviously no one can declare a ball lost - the rules govern when a ball is lost or not but it got me wondering whether a player could, in effect, force a ball to be lost. In the rules it is lost if "it is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it".

We all know the hypothetical situation of match play where a player on a par 3 sticks one in the deep stuff, plays and holes his provisions for a par. The opponent goes to try to find the original ball in order to discount the provisional. Let's say he finds one and shouts over. Is the player obligated to go over to identify the ball, or can he refuse, stand on the green for 5 minutes and say "well time's up, ball is lost as per the rules"?

And similarly, if a player, for whatever reason wanted to 'lose' his ball in the fairway and use his provisional, could he refuse to identify the ball and play the provisional?

 

[Ian_S]

Never mind, decision 27/13 requires a player to identify the ball.

We can close this thread. That didn't take long on Google, but interesting to know anyway.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Just following on from the unplayable thread, someone mentioned a player could declare a ball in the middle of the fairway to be lost if they want.

Obviously no one can declare a ball lost - the rules govern when a ball is lost or not but it got me wondering whether a player could, in effect, force a ball to be lost. In the rules it is lost if "it is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it".

We all know the hypothetical situation of match play where a player on a par 3 sticks one in the deep stuff, plays and holes his provisions for a par. The opponent goes to try to find the original ball in order to discount the provisional. Let's say he finds one and shouts over. Is the player obligated to go over to identify the ball, or can he refuse, stand on the green for 5 minutes and say "well time's up, ball is lost as per the rules"?

And similarly, if a player, for whatever reason wanted to 'lose' his ball in the fairway and use his provisional, could he refuse to identify the ball and play the provisional?

No-one can declare a ball lost, you can declare a ball unplayable anywhere but a ball is only lost when the criteria for a lost ball are met. If a player finds a "lost" ball, the player who's ball it is has an obligation to identify it

 

[Colin L]

.....We can close this thread.....

That's ok, Ian. Just talk amongst yourself any time.

 

[TheJezster]

Furthermore, once the provisional is in the hole, isnt it game up anyway? Doesnt matter if you find your original, your score would stand as the provisional went in the hole.

 

[Ian_S]

That's ok, Ian. Just talk amongst yourself any time.

Yeah it's probably safer for the rest of the world if I just sit in a room doing just that :temper:

 

[rosecott]

Furthermore, once the provisional is in the hole, isnt it game up anyway? Doesnt matter if you find your original, your score would stand as the provisional went in the hole.

Not so. If the original ball is found before the player removes the ball from the hole, the player is obliged to identify it and continue play with it.

 

[TheJezster]

Not so. If the original ball is found before the player removes the ball from the hole, the player is obliged to identify it and continue play with it.

Ah ok, cheers Rosecott. So, you'd have to pluck it out of the hole first?

 

[Foxholer]

Not so. If the original ball is found before the player removes the ball from the hole, the player is obliged to identify it and continue play with it.

And, given that playing a provisional from nearer the hole than the original also makes the original 'lost', then, if it's not in the hole, there could be an unseemly race to the green versus possible position of the original in some cases!

 

[Crow]

And, given that playing a provisional from nearer the hole than the original also makes the original 'lost', then, if it's not in the hole, there could be an unseemly race to the green versus possible position of the original in some cases!

Unseemly?
Sounds like a great sporting moment to me, and probably why the shoulder barge is covered by the R&A under Rule 32.4

 

[JustOne]

No-one can declare a ball lost, you can declare a ball unplayable anywhere but a ball is only lost when the criteria for a lost ball are met. If a player finds a "lost" ball, the player who's ball it is has an obligation to identify it

You can't declare a ball lost as you never need to. Hit one down the middle of the fairway then proceed to put another ball into play without declaring it as a provisional and it's now the ball in play - the first ball is now effectively 'lost' without a word being said. Hit one into the bundoo and don't bother looking for it and it's also effectively 'lost'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just following on from the unplayable thread, someone mentioned a player could declare a ball in the middle of the fairway to be lost if they want.

I'm guessing you may be referring to this that I posted

...but from the middle of the fairway it can be declared unplayable.

Note I never mentioned the word 'lost' - only 'unplayable'