Looking for Provisional Ball First

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I hit a crud shot and it looks in deep trouble - and my provisional is also in trouble - but much less so. When does the clock start on my search for my first ball. I want to look for my provisional first as I think I have more chance of finding that - but want to have time to look for my first just in case it fell lucky.

My instinct is that I (currently) have a total of 5mins 'looking time' - regardless of which ball I start to look for. If I abandon my hunt for my provisional at point A I have one minute left to get to where I think my original is - point B - and look for it. And I do not get any additional time for getting from A to B.

 

[lukeysafc100]

Rule 27-1c Ball not found within five minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within 5 minutes after the players side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played.

So basically, 5 minutes to look for your first ball and then 5 minutes to look for your second ball. However the clock starts as soon as someone starts looking for the ball.

 

[rulefan]

[h=2]27/4[/h][h=4]Time Permitted for Search for Original Ball and Provisional Ball[/h]

Q.Is a player allowed five minutes to search for his original ball and five more minutes to search for his provisional ball, or just a total of five minutes?
A.If the two balls are so close together that, in effect, both balls would be searched for simultaneously, a total of five minutes for search is allowed. Otherwise, the player is allowed to search five minutes for each ball.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

[h=2]27/4[/h][h=4]Time Permitted for Search for Original Ball and Provisional Ball[/h]

Q.Is a player allowed five minutes to search for his original ball and five more minutes to search for his provisional ball, or just a total of five minutes?
A.If the two balls are so close together that, in effect, both balls would be searched for simultaneously, a total of five minutes for search is allowed. Otherwise, the player is allowed to search five minutes for each ball.

Ah - so I was wrong. Means that if I went to look for my provisional, and meanwhile a PP went to look for my original I could look for 5mins for my provisional, and then walk across to where I hit my first ball and my PP is looking for it - then from when I start looking myself and with him, I get another 5mins, so my PP could spend 10mins plus time for me walking from A to B looking for my ball?

 

[pogle]

If by PP you actually mean fellow competitor, then yes. However, if it's a pairs competition , either foursomes or 4BBB, then your playing partner acts for you, so no.

 

[lukeysafc100]

Ah - so I was wrong. Means that if I went to look for my provisional, and meanwhile a PP went to look for my original I could look for 5mins for my provisional, and then walk across to where I hit my first ball and my PP is looking for it - then from when I start looking myself and with him, I get another 5mins, so my PP could spend 10mins plus time for me walking from A to B looking for my ball?

If it is your playing partner (pairs or a team event) - no the clock starts when they look for it.
If it is your competitor - then yes the clock starts when you or your caddy looks for it.

 

[rulefan]

If it is your playing partner (pairs or a team event) - no the clock starts when they look for it.
If it is your competitor - then yes the clock starts when you or your caddy looks for it.

I think you are confusing the issue by using terms that are not in the rules.

The term 'playing partner' does not appear in the rules and its use is very confusing. It is often used by TV commentators when they mean Fellow Competitor.

A "competitor" is a player in a stroke-play competition. A "fellow-competitor" is any person with whom the competitor plays. Neither is partner of the other.

In stroke play foursome and four-ball competitions, where the context so admits, the word "competitor" or "fellow-competitor" includes his partner.

A "partner" is a player associated with another player on the same side.

In threesome, foursome, best-ball or four-ball play, where the context so admits, the word "player" includes his partner or partners.

An "opponent" is a member of a side against whom the player's side is competing in match play.

 

[rulefan]

This is the correct version

If it is your Partner (pairs or a team event) - no the clock starts when they look for it.
If it is your Fellow Competitor - then yes the clock starts when you or your caddy looks for it.

 

[atticusfinch]

Words is important.

 

[Colin L]

Words is important.

Isn't they just?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I meant fellow competitor - but didn't use the term as the person playing with me might simply be someone playing with me but not a playing partner (in the fourball/foursomes sense) or fellow competitor. Oh words, words

Anyway - I am now clear. In my match last Saturday my opponent hit his first into the deep doggy RHS of fairway and then hit his provisional into heavy doggy LHS but marginally more findable. He went to look for his provisional - I was going to look for his original. And so the question entered my mind. So went to look for his provisional as he didn't seem inclined to look for his original.

 

[rulefan]

but not a playing partner (in the fourball/foursomes sense) or fellow competitor.

You are still not making it clear. The person on your side in a fourball/foursome is your PARTNER not playing partner.

Some people mean fellow competitor and others mean partner when they say playing partner. So confusing

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You are still not making it clear. The person on your side in a fourball/foursome is your PARTNER not playing partner.

Some people mean fellow competitor and others mean partner when they say playing partner. So confusing

Using your correct definition - I was thinking of neither partner nor fellow competitor - I was thinking perhaps of my mate having a casual knock round with me and we are not connected in any playing or competitive way. can I call him my playing partner?

 

[rulefan]

Using your correct definition - I was thinking of neither partner nor fellow competitor - I was thinking perhaps of my mate having a casual knock round with me and we are not connected in any playing or competitive way. can I call him my playing partner?

You can call him what you like.

But I suggest you steer clear of that term as it may get confusing if you have a rules query in a strokeplay or matchplay competition.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You can call him what you like.

But I suggest you steer clear of that term as it may get confusing if you have a rules query in a strokeplay or matchplay competition.

which one - playing partner? Cool. Ever a student of golf. Pity though - as using PP was handy shorthand for your partner in a fourball or foursomes pairing

 

[rulefan]

which one - playing partner? Cool. Ever a student of golf. Pity though - as using PP was handy shorthand for your partner in a fourball or foursomes pairing

Partner is even shorter.

But what do you call a player in the same group as you playing singles stroke play. A lot of TV commentators call them playing partners.

Incidentally, does anyone know what is a non-playing partner?

 

[Colin L]

Partner is even shorter.

Incidentally, does anyone know what is a non-playing partner?

My wife, for one.

 

[rulefan]

My wife, for one.

Groan

 

[Colin L]

You're welcome.

You know she's a non-golfer because she always says "Have fun" when I go out for a game. Fun? Who's she kidding?

 

[rulefan]

You're welcome.

You know she's a non-golfer because she always says "Have fun" when I go out for a game. Fun? Who's she kidding?

Just hope she's not having fun while you're out.