LIV Golf

[Liverpoolphil]

They have some what of a point though, why do people hate Saudi but happily see things happen in china and dubai? Selective much...

I think it shows they'll be in no rush to pull the plug. The funds are whopping to us average joe's but pocket change to them

I don’t “happily” see things happen in China or Dubai and many other feel the same , just look at the reaction to the Qatar World Cup amongst other things - people arent fans of human rights abuse regardless of what the country is and people aren’t fans of the rich countries using their money to try and sports wash

The worst thing Golf did or European Golf is jump into bed with Middle East money

 

[Backsticks]

I

The worst thing Golf did or European Golf is jump into bed with Middle East money

I am all in favour of it. Its just our own money that we gave them for oil, coming back to us.

The middle East and golf has been fine. And Saudi tournaments and money would have been fine too. Its the splitting of the tours top golfers that I have the problem with, degrading the elite golf competition product globally.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Did find this bit interesting

“But the goal of sportswashing, in this case, isn’t to convince people human rights violations as defined by groups such as Amnesty International don’t exist in Saudi Arabia. Instead, it’s to elevate the narrative that Saudi isn’t any worse than Dubai or China. And if you’re holding tournaments in and doing business with those countries then, hey, why not us?”

Human rights abuse etc is all ok because others do it just as bad then ?

It also shows that they will no doubt pull the plug at some point

Bear in mind, you’re quoting the opinion of a journalist there, rather than the opinions of the Saudis specifically.

It looks to me like the Saudis know they need to change, and their expansion into sports is part of that change.

It might take decades, or longer, but if they do change, that’s a good thing.

A few hundred years ago (long after golf was invented) people in my area were hung for trying to smash up machinery, if they were lucky, they were sent on a boat to Australia. 200 years - that’s nothing in the lifespan of humanity.

 

[Liverpoolphil]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603843614626705408

seems to be a big blow for them

 

[Doon frae Troon]

No surprise to me.
Their business model makes no sense to me.
Norman must be laughing his socks off getting paid all that cash for such a desperately poor concept.

 

[IainP]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603843614626705408

seems to be a big blow for them

We'll probably never know whether he jumped or was push. If replaced wait to see if any change in direction/approach that may help to heal.
Edit - little more has come out...
https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/re...m_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com

Unless I missed it, did seem like the Dunhill avoided much "who's in the field" drama, and winner Strydom benefited from the field strength.
Know some won't agree but it did seem like a nod to how things could have been.

 

[TheBigDraw]

Fire Drill Podcast reporting a OWGR board member has told Alan Shipnuck Liv will be awarded OWGR points around the time of The Masters.

Huge news if true as it really legitimises Liv as a golf tour.

 

[Backsticks]

Fire Drill Podcast reporting a OWGR board member has told Alan Shipnuck Liv will be awarded OWGR points around the time of The Masters.

Huge news if true as it really legitimises Liv as a golf tour.

Not really huge, as it had to come. OWGR doesnt want to kill itself off. And LIV is most certainly a legitimate tour. The majors will adapt too, and invite the top handful of golfers in it when their existing entry exemptions expire.
LIV is somewhere between the Champions tour and the Kornferry, but made easier by the smaller field, so we should see them get points something like placing 11th and down from a Kornferry, boosted if more LIV golfers win majors, or existing top 30 rankers defect, although that road seems a dead end now.

 

[TheBigDraw]

Not really huge, as it had to come. OWGR doesnt want to kill itself off. And LIV is most certainly a legitimate tour. The majors will adapt too, and invite the top handful of golfers in it when their existing entry exemptions expire.
LIV is somewhere between the Champions tour and the Kornferry, but made easier by the smaller field, so we should see them get points something like placing 11th and down from a Kornferry, boosted if more LIV golfers win majors, or existing top 30 rankers defect, although that road seems a dead end now.

It's huge because no OWGR is the main reason players are not willing to move across to LIV who are open to possibly doing so.

If top 30 players are getting offered crazy signing on bonuses and there are pathways to the majors through OWGR or majors own criteria the more will be tempted to switch for sure.

Fire Drill Podcast said OWGR board member said they had to act because of the strength of the Liv Tour field was skewing the accuracy of their rankings.
Like you said they had to act to not kill itself off.

If Champions Tour or Korn Ferry had no OWGR points it would not skew the rankings at all so with respect that speaks more to where Liv truely sits in the world of golf.

 

[Liverpoolphil]

It's huge because no OWGR is the main reason players are not willing to move across to LIV who are open to possibly doing so.

If top 30 players are getting offered crazy signing on bonuses and there are pathways to the majors through OWGR or majors own criteria the more will be tempted to switch for sure.

Fire Drill Podcast said OWGR board member said they had to act because of the strength of the Liv Tour field was skewing the accuracy of their rankings.
Like you said they had to act to not kill itself off.

If Champions Tour or Korn Ferry had no OWGR points it would not skew the rankings at all so with respect that speaks more to where Liv truely sits in the world of golf.

Not sure Ranking points is the main reason people aren’t going to LIV

There will be a whole list

Also when they do get some level of points it’s going to be very small

I suspect it’s far from any done deal unless LIV are making significant changes to move it away from being a closed invite only tour

I also don’t expect the Majors to make any changes of qualifying entry to allow any direct qualification from LIV events or OOM - the LIV tour is not sustainable and could just stop at any time

 

[BiMGuy]

LiV event’s won’t get enough ranking points to attract more top players without the Saudis putting their hands in their pockets again. 54 hole events with small weak fields aren’t going to get many points.

 

[TheBigDraw]

Key point here is that OWGR needs to stay relavent to survive, that's been mentioned by people of both sides of the divide.

OWGR has been forced to fast track points to Liv because they have key players slipping down its rankings making it look obselete.

Rahm, Tiger and Rory have all said if Livs top players are outside the top 50/100 then it makes a mockery of OWGR.

So on that rational if they award very few points to Liv and those players still slip down the rankings even though they are performing well on Liv then nothings changed and they continue to look inaccurate.

For example If Cam Smith/DJ are winning multiple events on Liv and continue to drift down the rankings then OWGR is still struggling for relavence.

If more top players move across to Liv then this becomes even more important for them.

My opinion is that this balance is going to be very hard for OWGR to strike and leave it struggling for importance in the new world of golf.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Like Davis Love said, rank them by their earnings, bad golfers don't earn good money, and good golfers don't play for frig all.

Essentially, it's the big money earners that everybody wants to see in The Majors, and one way or another, that is what we will see.

 

[Backsticks]

Would that put Phil at number 1, and Tiger second ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Would that put Phil at number 1, and Tiger second ?

No, but I think most people would still love to see Phil and Tiger given the opportunities to play in Majors, wouldn’t they?

 

[Swango1980]

Like Davis Love said, rank them by their earnings, bad golfers don't earn good money, and good golfers don't play for frig all.

Essentially, it's the big money earners that everybody wants to see in The Majors, and one way or another, that is what we will see.

Ohhh no, you are not getting back to trolling this thread again, are you? Or, is this a serious suggestion from you? Probably better to get confirmation from you, before anyone progresses to any sort of debate about this idea

 

[ColchesterFC]

Like Davis Love said, rank them by their earnings, bad golfers don't earn good money, and good golfers don't play for frig all.

Essentially, it's the big money earners that everybody wants to see in The Majors, and one way or another, that is what we will see.

Isn't the problem with that the money on offer for LIV events would skew the rankings too far in favour of LIV golfers? You'd have the same issue as now but in reverse with the top PGA tour players sliding down the rankings. No easy fix but some kind of compromise needs to be found.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Ohhh no, you are not getting back to trolling this thread again, are you? Or, is this a serious suggestion from you? Probably better to get confirmation from you, before anyone progresses to any sort of debate about this idea

No.

That's the way they used to be ranked, Davis Love suggested it was a solution, and there's an element of merit in it. In real terms, I suspect the best 10 golfers in the world this year will be round the top ten money earners - so it's arguably a more accurate rating than the OWGR

 

[Swango1980]

Isn't the problem with that the money on offer for LIV events would skew the rankings too far in favour of LIV golfers? You'd have the same issue as now but in reverse with the top PGA tour players sliding down the rankings. No easy fix but some kind of compromise needs to be found.

That is indeed correct, which is why I assumed Mel Smooth was simply trolling the thread to get a reaction.

 

[Mel Smooth]

That is indeed correct, which is why I assumed Mel Smooth was simply trolling the thread to get a reaction.

Getting a reaction from you isn't exactly difficult bud.