Life means Life - again

To me this has been a real non-story. Just semantics around the wording of the law and only talking about ~50 cases in total. Any change will have no real impact on any of them. They will all be locked up until they die (as they should be). I probably agree that they should be reviewed as with any decision where the impact will last for maybe 50-60 years - common sense. The fact that they would be reviewed would be very unlikely to result in anyone being released but would just confirm that the "whole life" tarrif was still appropriate. Just stiring up a bit of "anti europe" feeling over not very much IMO.
 
It will only be a punishment if they are locked up in a padded cell with nothing to do. 40 - 50 years in a private room with all the amenities is not a punishment.
 
srixon 1 said:
It will only be a punishment if they are locked up in a padded cell with nothing to do. 40 - 50 years in a private room with all the amenities is not a punishment.
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Really? I wouldn't fancy it much.

Are they really getting a whole life sentence to punish them?

I thought it was more to do with protecting the rest of us.
 
My attitude has always been the the punishment for any crime has to be enough of a deterrent for the potential perpetrator to have to think twice before committing the crime. With the exception of crimes of passion which are carried out in the moment usually without thought for any consequence, as these will never be prevented.
If anyone thinks it is a good idea to rob a post office but they think "Hold on if I get caught then I'll do 40 years without getting out" then that sentence has done it's job as a deterrent. But and it is a big BUT. That deterrent has to be enforced properly with no leniency. If the judiciary namby pamby then it is a total waste of time.
If a crime carries 40 years then it has to carry 40 years, no parole.
 
drawboy said:
My attitude has always been the the punishment for any crime has to be enough of a deterrent for the potential perpetrator to have to think twice before committing the crime. With the exception of crimes of passion which are carried out in the moment usually without thought for any consequence, as these will never be prevented.
If anyone thinks it is a good idea to rob a post office but they think "Hold on if I get caught then I'll do 40 years without getting out" then that sentence has done it's job as a deterrent. But and it is a big BUT. That deterrent has to be enforced properly with no leniency. If the judiciary namby pamby then it is a total waste of time.
If a crime carries 40 years then it has to carry 40 years, no parole.
Click to expand...

I do follow your point but taking to the extreme, if you gave a 40 sentence for parking on double yellow lines then it would probably stop people doing it, they would be more aware that it could block emergency services from gaining access.

I am no fan of the COHR but in this case I can see their point. No matter how horrendous the crimes committed by people like Rose West her sentence could be reviewed after say 30 years. She probably would not be released but it would be a sign that we are more humane than her.
 
murphthemog said:
Really? I wouldn't fancy it much.

Are they really getting a whole life sentence to punish them?

I thought it was more to do with protecting the rest of us.
Click to expand...

Death penalty.
We would be protected & reviews would not be required.
The nation would be saving money & prisons would not be so crowded.
In the right cases, where's the problem?


Slime.
 
Slime said:
Death penalty.
We would be protected & reviews would not be required.
The nation would be saving money & prisons would not be so crowded.
In the right cases, where's the problem?


Slime.
Click to expand...

What if ten years later that person is found to be actually not guilty ?

We no longer live in an eye for an eye society - killing a killer doesn't make it right
 
Slime said:
Death penalty.
We would be protected & reviews would not be required.
The nation would be saving money & prisons would not be so crowded.
In the right cases, where's the problem?


Slime.
Click to expand...

Liverpoolphil said:
What if ten years later that person is found to be actually not guilty ?

We no longer live in an eye for an eye society - killing a killer doesn't make it right
Click to expand...

That's exactly why I said 'in the right cases', i.e. where ther is NO doubt or when there's a confession.
The case of the poor soldier, Lee Rigby, where the crime was recorded & the murdering *******s admitted to doing it.
What is the point of keeping such people alive?


Slime.
 
Slime said:
where ther is NO doubt or when there's a confession.


Slime.
Click to expand...

But that isn't how people are confvcted in court. They are convicted "beyond all reasonable doubt", not when there is no doubt.

Also, confessions don't mean anything. I can confess to anything, for a variety of reasons! Doesn't mean I did it, and therefore it wouldn't be right to kill me on the back of it.
 
Slime said:
That's exactly why I said 'in the right cases', i.e. where ther is NO doubt or when there's a confession.
The case of the poor soldier, Lee Rigby, where the crime was recorded & the murdering *******s admitted to doing it.
What is the point of keeping such people alive?


Slime.
Click to expand...

Because two killings don't cancel each other out

What if they are deemed mentally ill ?

Sorry but the death penalty IMO is wrong and deserves to stay in the dark ages
 
I said where there is NO doubt!
Okay, the confessions one is a bit weak :whistle: but there are plenty which are proven not just 'beyond reasonable doubt' but where there actually is 'no doubt'.

Slime.
 
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I was in the Philippines last month and spent some time in Davao and samal Island , check it out , wonderful place and cheap too , Like it that much I bought some land there on a golf resort with the view to retire there soon or at very least built a holiday home , lovely spot and good course designed by Andy Dye . The crime rate there is almost zero , the mayor has been in power there for 25 years and if you do crime of any sort over there you are given a few warnings then your village chief or head is advised and you and your family are advised clean up your act or ship out as you are now black listed , carry on and the DDS ( Davao Death squad ) will come along and just shoot you , end off , not right or human rights and all that but it works , most of the people there like the way their city is and nobody knows who this DDS is or want to find out or even report them , suits everyone except the crooks , its a safe place let me tell you , check it out on the net ...........we are too soft over here and its getting out of hand at times ................
 
JCW said:
I was in the Philippines last month and spent some time in Davao and samal Island , check it out , wonderful place and cheap too , Like it that much I bought some land there on a golf resort with the view to retire there soon or at very least built a holiday home , lovely spot and good course designed by Andy Dye . The crime rate there is almost zero , the mayor has been in power there for 25 years and if you do crime of any sort over there you are given a few warnings then your village chief or head is advised and you and your family are advised clean up your act or ship out as you are now black listed , carry on and the DDS ( Davao Death squad ) will come along and just shoot you , end off , not right or human rights and all that but it works , most of the people there like the way their city is and nobody knows who this DDS is or want to find out or even report them , suits everyone except the crooks , its a safe place let me tell you , check it out on the net ...........we are too soft over here and its getting out of hand at times ................
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me you're genuinely backing this method of crime deterrant?!?!?

So an unknown group of people, answering to one or two people, are able to go around killing people that they deem fit.

If you genuinely believe that this is what is needed, then I sincerely hope that this is just you an this isn't a widespread belief
 
Slime said:
I said where there is NO doubt!
Okay, the confessions one is a bit weak :whistle: but there are plenty which are proven not just 'beyond reasonable doubt' but where there actually is 'no doubt'.

Slime.
Click to expand...

Are there really "plenty" proven behind no doubt ?

Think you would be very surprised
 
JCW said:
I was in the Philippines last month and spent some time in Davao and samal Island , check it out , wonderful place and cheap too , Like it that much I bought some land there on a golf resort with the view to retire there soon or at very least built a holiday home , lovely spot and good course designed by Andy Dye . The crime rate there is almost zero , the mayor has been in power there for 25 years and if you do crime of any sort over there you are given a few warnings then your village chief or head is advised and you and your family are advised clean up your act or ship out as you are now black listed , carry on and the DDS ( Davao Death squad ) will come along and just shoot you , end off , not right or human rights and all that but it works , most of the people there like the way their city is and nobody knows who this DDS is or want to find out or even report them , suits everyone except the crooks , its a safe place let me tell you , check it out on the net ...........we are too soft over here and its getting out of hand at times ................
Click to expand...

Yeah really safe - controlled by Marshall law and highly illegal. That's pretty much law by terror
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Because two killings don't cancel each other out

What if they are deemed mentally ill ?

Sorry but the death penalty IMO is wrong and deserves to stay in the dark ages
Click to expand...

It's not about cancelling each other out ............ or revenge ............ or an eye for an eye.
It's about ridding our society of dangerous individuals who may eventually get released and have the capacity to re-offend.
If they are so mentally ill that they rape children or murder people because they represent our armed forces then, quite frankly, we can't help them but we can help everyone else by removing them from society, permanently.
Oh, and anyone who interferes with kids is, to my mind, mentally ill.

Slime.
 
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