lag on shorter shots

[dontfancythisputt]

Afternoon all

A quick question that I’m hoping your expertise can assist me on.

I had been losing distance with most clubs in the bag since the start of winter and noticed a higher ball flight creeping in along with an inconsistent strike.

A lesson a few weeks ago sorted the problem immediately, that was down purely to getting to fast with the arms and losing all lag or late wrist release. I was often hitting the ball before my weight had shifted on to my left side completely and scooping irons rather than hitting down into them.

Apparently my rhythm and lag go hand in hand and losing one loses the other. A good rhythem give me the late release or so the pro mentioned.

So hopefully problem solved and my distances are back to normal for me with a better strike. Im back to almost forum distances

So my question: At what point do you guys stop trying to add an element of lag into your swing? I ask because I have noticed that I get better results when holding off the wrist release even with half wedge shots.

Is it normal to have lag or late wrist release even on the short shots – I have tried long chipping with the technique and it gives a clean strike but just feels all wrong.

Web videos suggest that a lot of pros get into a similar position for full shots but it varies (from what I can tell) with shorter shots.

Is there a golden rule or is it completely on feel and personal preference?

Any feedback will be much appreciated, apologies if my terminology isn’t correct.

Thanks

 

[G_Mulligan]

I am a pelz man, no lag whatsoever on wedge shots. No coil, no release into the ball, nothing.

I just go back with a gentle progressive wrist cock and let it release naturally using centrifugal force.

 

[lex!]

I just go back with a gentle progressive wrist cock and let it release naturally using centrifugal force.

But that's exactly what I understand lag to be.

This is an interesting post, and we should get some good input from the experts. If I try and force lag, it all goes pear shaped. I try and remember to keep everything relaxed, feel the weight in the club head, and let it drop as the swing starts. Then, weight and hands forward, and momentum will lag the impact.

 

[Foxholer]

But that's exactly what I understand lag to be.

(Traditional) Lag is actually the (absence of) un-cocking of the downswing, nothing really to do with the backswing.

'Lagging impact' means nothing to me, but doesn't seem like a smart thing to do either. Arms and club shaft should be straight, with the shaft on a slight forward lean (for irons).

Trying to create anything while chipping/pitching sounds dangerous to me. Soft hands and left the 'swing' do the work - whichever of the several techniques you use. The only 'semi-unnatural' aspect of it is how the follow through is quite deliberately controlled - whether it's Pelz (always to the same place) Utley (same through as back) or Mickelson's Hinge&Hold (held from getting ahead of arms).

 

[the_coach]

Afternoon all

A quick question that I’m hoping your expertise can assist me on.

I had been losing distance with most clubs in the bag since the start of winter and noticed a higher ball flight creeping in along with an inconsistent strike.

A lesson a few weeks ago sorted the problem immediately, that was down purely to getting to fast with the arms and losing all lag or late wrist release. I was often hitting the ball before my weight had shifted on to my left side completely and scooping irons rather than hitting down into them.

Apparently my rhythm and lag go hand in hand and losing one loses the other. A good rhythem give me the late release or so the pro mentioned.

So hopefully problem solved and my distances are back to normal for me with a better strike. Im back to almost forum distances

So my question: At what point do you guys stop trying to add an element of lag into your swing? I ask because I have noticed that I get better results when holding off the wrist release even with half wedge shots.

Is it normal to have lag or late wrist release even on the short shots – I have tried long chipping with the technique and it gives a clean strike but just feels all wrong.

Web videos suggest that a lot of pros get into a similar position for full shots but it varies (from what I can tell) with shorter shots.

Is there a golden rule or is it completely on feel and personal preference?

Any feedback will be much appreciated, apologies if my terminology isn’t correct.

Thanks

Lag is just one of the energy producing sources of club head speed. And a component of hands leading the club head through impact

All it actually is, is the angle produced in the setting of the hands/wrists when taking the club back to the top of the backswing.

It should be, and usually is more or less fully formed with that 'set' somewhere around when the left arm is parallel to the ground (some folks a little later, some little sooner, but around left arm parallel is a good norm, some though not many increase lag a good deal at transition) and the angle between left arm and club shaft is around 90 degrees, at this point the left wrist is cocked upwards the right wrist hinged back towards the right arm (an angle clearly seen at this point between back of right hand and right arm) That's the 'lag' pre stored, the shoulders then just complete the turn to the top.

In the full swing you 'keep' this 'lag' by starting transition with lead foot, leg, hip bump & hip clearance sequence starting transition so every other part of the swing body, shoulder, arms, hands, grip shaft and club head lagging behind.
In a not so good motion people throw away this lag too soon by starting the transition with their shoulders and arms going out and over the top, you then cast, and can hit it major fat, or flip the wrists and thin it on the up, and get the dreaded chicken wing through the OTT move.

But this is all to do with providing club head speed & accuracy through impact.

Small shots, 100 yards and in, isn't about looking for maximum club head speed, it's about control and accuracy. You don't need to try to retain maximum 'lag', if you try to with these shots you'll just get major inconsistency and bad results.

Good chippers, just look to retain the small angle formed in the right wrist going back, in the through swing through impact, the right wrist is still flexed at impact the left wrist is flat, hands reach the ball first there's a small forward lean to the shaft, so you get ball first at contact, the small swing arc used is a fairly shallow one, not steep.

Small pitch shots just has a small 'set' too, not looking for speed but control, smooth acceleration through impact is governed by the body pivot back and through, hands are quiet, at impact left wrist flat and again there's still a little flex/angle kept through the strike in the right wrist.

Any attempt to create and maintain a deal of lag with these small shots will at worst play havoc with the distance control (also accuracy left or right of target) as this bigger angle won't always be released at the same time through your shots.

If you should try to retain strong lag in these short pitches, hands well in front of impact you won't get good contact, if this is also coupled with pronounced "out to in" or pronounced "in to out" paths you'll just at best present an open club face at impact, or at worst spend a good bunch of time 'shanking' most of these shots.

 

[G1BB0]

I can vouch for shanking

I am working on impact with irons and if I do the same with wedges its shanksville lol. Goto my normal feel swing and problem sorted. Great post by the_coach :thup:

 

[duncan mackie]

Is there a golden rule or is it completely on feel and personal preference?

hands lead the club head (are ahead of it) through impact is the golden rule

 

[dontfancythisputt]

Thanks for the comments all, much appreciated.

The shanking problem is definitely something I can relate to as I have gone through that problem recently, mainly due to not releasing the club at impact (especially with short irons and wedges) and coming into the ball too much from the inside. – don’t want to go back there ever!

I think I knew already that forced lagging of short shots was not the way forward as it just felt so unnatural to try and hold the release off until the last moment. My pro never gave we any tips on improving lag as he has said many times previously that my rhythm causes most of my faults and getting that back is the main priority. – I blame trying to smash everything during the windy period we have had!

I got some rhythm back at the weekend and played to my handicap with some nice shots in the mix so some improvement seen already. The smooth tempo obviously helps keep the ball down which i assume is mainly due to a better strike with less spin.

I’m thinking of having another lesson as a few things are going through my mind at the moment and I’m not sure which is the correct path to take. I’m almost certain that my hands aren’t getting in front of, or even over, the ball at impact so I want to find the cause of this, my guess is a bit of a ball position and a bit of a set up fault.

If anything of interest crops up I may update this post.

thanks again.

 

[SocketRocket]

Instead of thinking 'hands ahead' at impact consider the shaft in line with the left arm. To achieve this condition the hands will be in the correct position as designed into the club.