knocking a leaf off during practice swing ?

[williamalex1]

We had a discussion about this yesterday during a friendly 4 ball with a couple of mates. My partner knocked one leaf off a overhanging branch in his practice swing, one opponent a 5 handicap, said definite penalty rule 13-2 .

I said as long the swing path had not been improved there would be no penalty. The only thing i can find is decision 13-2/0.5 but its not too clear.

BTW my partner just lifted his ball , and i won the hole anyway :ears:.

 

[Spuddy]

We had a discussion about this yesterday during a friendly 4 ball with a couple of mates. My partner knocked one leaf off a overhanging branch in his practice swing, one opponent a 5 handicap, said definite penalty rule 13-2 .

I said as long the swing path had not been improved there would be no penalty. The only thing i can find is decision 13-2/0.5 but its not too clear.

BTW my partner just lifted his ball , and i won the hole anyway :ears:.

Decision 13-2/0.5 is the correct reference. It all depends on whether the area of intended swing has been 'materially affected'. If the branch is still full of leaves then it wont have been. If there was just a few leaves and the removal of that one has improved the area of the swing then its a penalty.

 

[rulefan]

Seems pretty clear to me.


Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected;

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected;

 

[williamalex1]

Seems pretty clear to me.


Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected;

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected;

My opponent didn't think it was clear, he said because the leaf was knocked off during his practice swing, then that leaf had been on his swing path, and as it is no longer there he has improved his swing path.

 

[Spuddy]

My opponent didn't think it was clear, he said because the leaf was knocked off during his practice swing, then that leaf had been on his swing path, and as it is no longer there he has improved his swing path.

Was it the only leaf? i.e. Were there other leaves that would also have interfered with the swing? Thats the only consideration.

 

[williamalex1]

Was it the only leaf? i.e. Were there other leaves that would also have interfered with the swing? Thats the only consideration.

It was only one small leaf knocked of, plenty of other leaves remained. I have told him to check decisions 12-2/05. But some guys just can't be convinced.

 

[Three]

In reality one leaf makes zero difference to the swing of a fast moving metal object, on this occasion I would go with the view that the swing path has not been improved.

But there's leaves and there's leaves, if it was a big tropical one, that would be different.

 

[Colin L]

In reality one leaf makes zero difference to the swing of a fast moving metal object, on this occasion I would go with the view that the swing path has not been improved.

But there's leaves and there's leaves, if it was a big tropical one, that would be different.

Well, the Decision cited above obviously does consider that one leaf can make a difference. The removal of a distraction such as the sound of your clubhead hitting a leaf has to be taken into account as well as any physical effect on the club.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Ask him what his opinion would be if instead of a tree it had been a privet hedge. One leaf knocked off......penalty? Obviously a "no". So, by definition there must be a point where the "materially improved" definition becomes relevant. That is always a matter of opinion but in most cases it is obvious. From what you describe, I don't think it's a penalty. It may help him to turn the question around and ask what difference it made? If the answer is "effectively none" then there's no penalty.

 

[Region3]

Ask him what his opinion would be if instead of a tree it had been a privet hedge. One leaf knocked off......penalty? Obviously a "no". So, by definition there must be a point where the "materially improved" definition becomes relevant. That is always a matter of opinion but in most cases it is obvious. From what you describe, I don't think it's a penalty. It may help him to turn the question around and ask what difference it made? If the answer is "effectively none" then there's no penalty.

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who think one leaf off a privet hedge would be a penalty