Job Dilemma

[CheltenhamHacker]

Here is an interesting question asked by a mate (FC really) to my group of golfing friends, think he wants a sensible answer! As I haven’t really ever come across this scenario before, I can’t help him much so thought I would throw it out there to the masses, so I can actually be some use.

He is looking to move from his current job, down to London. The issue he is finding is that a lot of recruitment consultants want to meet him before they will forward his application, which means going down to London to meet them, and then for the interviews. He lives in Telford, which means that “popping” down to London isn’t really feasible that often.

We’ve suggested Skype for meeting the consultants, and some have gone for that but others seem insistent on making him want to go down (or so he says). His dilemma, being that he is struggling to get time of work for all of this, is should he tell his boss that he is looking elsewhere, as his boss would then understand the need for time off a better? Or is telling his boss absolutely the last thing he should do?

I would hate to tell him to speak with his boss, which was my gut, if the more experienced heads on hear disagreed!!

Any advice to pass on?

 

[IanG]

He needs to take a day's holiday and not tell his boss.

 

[Birchy]

Tell his boss? Are you insane?

Imagine the new job doesn't come off, he will struggle going back to the old place.

He needs to do it off the radar no matter how he does it. Holiday, sick etc etc

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I can see how this is going already..


My only thought was that he has said he is definitely going to London, so going back/staying in the old job isn't really an issue, but I can see how it might make a few months awkward!

 

[Hobbit]

I'd say not to tell his boss. If he tells his boss, and then doesn't get a job would a boss continue to invest in him with training courses etc?

If one of my staff wants time off for interviews, I don't have a problem. I like ambition but would I put him forward for further training or promotion knowing he's already started looking elsewhere? No.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If I was in his shoes I'd book a day or two's annual leave and get all the agencies that insist on seeing me in person arranged for those days and get it all sorted in one hit. Make sure you have all the right ID etc and the sooner you are on the books the quicker they can be looking and trying to earn their commission

 

[ADB]

Mate: Hi Boss
Boss: Yeah, what can I do for you..
Mate: I'm fed up here and looking for a new job - any chance I could have more time off to go to interviews, that OK?
Boss: No worries, take all the time you need........infact there's the door, you can start right now....

Cant believe telling the boss was even considered....

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Can work another way and the boss may see you as 'irreplaceable' and offer you promotion/wage rise to stay.

I left one job where I honestly thought they would be glad to see the back of me.
Two hours after putting in by letter I was offered another £2k [1970's] a year to stay.
Still left!!

Being honest with my bosses generally worked well for me.

 

[Beezerk]

Agree with what's already been said to be honest.
The few agencies I registered with always insisted on a face to face interview before sending out my CV to clients.
Book some holidays and DON'T tell the gaffer.

 

[c1973]

Can work another way and the boss may see you as 'irreplaceable' and offer you promotion/wage rise to stay.

I left one job where I honestly thought they would be glad to see the back of me.
Two hours after putting in by letter I was offered another £2k [1970's] a year to stay.
Still left!!

Being honest with my bosses generally worked well for me.

I was thinking the same thing myself Doon.

If the guy is good enough to move up the ladder the boss will know this, and if he can't afford to keep him I doubt he would begrudge him the chance of moving. I wouldn't expect too much time off though.

Honesty is always the best policy imo.

 

[Rooter]

What kind of job is he going for? recruiters often want to meet you as its their reputation on the line.

I have met some, refused with others. If its for a high paid job, the likelyhood of them wanting to meet first are higher in my experience. However if i were back in the job market today, i would most likely refuse to meet consultants. most in my experience are a waste of time and effort.

 

[Khamelion]

Depends on the boss. I used to work in Leeds and wanted to be back closer to Newcastle, so told the company I worked for the situation and that I was looking for work in Newcastle, the company came back a couple of days later with a pay rise and the offer of working from home a couple of days a week. I accepted and stayed a year longer.

As Hobbit wrote, if any of my team wanted to time off for an interview, I would have no problem in agreeing, but they wouldn't be considered for training.

If the boss is approachable, then perhaps a conversation with him/her may be fruitful in that alternate opportunities could be forthcoming, then again if the boss is a tool, then doing things as personal time may be a better option.

I'll go and pull the splinters out my ass, after that fence sitting

 

[mcbroon]

This doesn't say a lot for the relationships some people have with their bosses IMO. I'm currently on the lookout for a new job, my boss is fully aware of the fact and is very supportive. If he could give me what I want, he would, but he can't so he understands that I'm looking elsewhere. No problem agreeing time off to go to interviews or meetings with consultants.

I suppose the answer is 'it depends on how you get on with your boss'. I'd tell mine but maybe I wouldn't if he was the reason I wanted to leave.

 

[jp5]

Can work another way and the boss may see you as 'irreplaceable' and offer you promotion/wage rise to stay.

...

Being honest with my bosses generally worked well for me.

Different times nowadays I'm afraid.

To OP - it would be absolute lunacy for him to tell his boss he is looking elsewhere. To be honest I would advise against taking the time off to go and meet the recruitment consultants - complete waste of time from my experience and nothing that can't be done via the phone. Only time I'd take off would be for the interviews. Can't your friend circumvent the recruiters?

 

[Andy808]

There's definitely a distinct pattern emerging in the voting!
Take the time off as holiday then if things don't go to plan then your current boss in none the wiser.

 

[sev112]

Recruiters are making money out of you! They are NOT doing you any favour whatsoever
There are a small number who are good
Most have NOTHING to offer that you cannot do yourself.
They app,y for the same jobs that you do
They take 15% of the first year salary , often up to 25% from the employer
Very few have "good relationships" with employers - employers want the right person, rather than take a different person from a particular agency

So remember they are working for you, and are making money from you. The money they take will effectively come off your first 2 year' salary so you can get more by going to the employer. So make them work to YOUR requirements, not their convenience

Only in VERY specialist fields and cases is this not the case

Personally in my company we tell all our managers that it is their job to know when their staff are unhappy and looking elsewhere and to do something about it before they leave. So in my case I would informally talk with my boss and talk about "the future", what your needs / aspirations are, and what does he think the opportunities are in the business.

But that depends on your company, you, your boss and your working relationship. Ostensibly your employment is a contract between you and your employer - the best contracts works with open relationships.

Good luck - hop it works out for your mate

 

[bladeplayer]

Dont think we know the guy or his relationship with his boss to really advise mate , my boss knows i want a job in the golf industry , one might be opening up in the near future , he is aware i will be going for it if it does...

If your mate is defo moving to London then i dont see any harm in the boss knowing , but he sit down with the boss and be up front for the reason he leaving etc .. might be good idea to be on terms if reference is needed

No real help i know . sorry

 

[londonlewis]

Recruiters are making money out of you!

Recruiters make money from their clients and provide a free service to candidates. What money does a candidate have to pay to a recruitment company?

So remember they are working for you, and are making money from you.

Yes, they do work on behalf of the candidate but they are not making money from the candidate. The client is the one that receives the invoice and pays the bill.

The money they take will effectively come off your first 2 year' salary so you can get more by going to the employer.

So very wrong. An agency will have a fee agreed with their client. This will be a percentage of the first year's salary. Therefore the higher the salary offered to the candidate, the higher the fee to the recruiter. It is 100% in the recruiter's interest to get the highest possible salary for their candidates.

So make them work to YOUR requirements, not their convenience

A recruitment agency will be selective with the candidates they work with. And the way that a candidate behaves with a recruiter will typically reflect how they will work with a client. If a candidate is rude, discourteous and difficult to deal with then a recruiter is not going to want to work with them.


My advice;
Your friend needs to determine whether the recruiters they are working with are specialists in their market. Do they actually work on the type of role that the candidate wants?

They also need to understand who their clients are - would you want to work for those companies?

This will help you to determine which recruiters to register with and which ones to not bother meeting.

In terms of getting the time to come to London - I would recommend your friend speaks to their boss, if they have a good relationship with them. Something like 'Boss, I really enjoy working here and appreciate everyhing you and the company have done for me, but I am currently looking at relocating to London within the next year, if the right opportunity comes up. This is a difficult decision for me but I wanted to let you know out of respect and I hope that I may be able to get some leniency around availability for interviews as they arise. I have some recruiters in London who are looking to meet me and I'm looking to take some annual leave in order to see them'

or something along those lines.

What this might do (positive impact):
- their boss may already have some great contacts in London to help them secure a new role
- they may also be able to offer guidance / advice in terms of recruiters you should work with / steer clear of or companies you should work for / avoid like the plague
- and it should mean that your boss won't be left in the lurch when you decide to leave. And it might help them be more flexible around the leaving date or future interviews that are booked in

What this might do (negative impact):
- your boss no longer supports you and gives you all the worst jobs to do and that is pretty much it.
If that is the case; they didn't know their boss well enough to decide not to have this conversation in the first place

Other recommendations:
When meeting with recruiters;
- these are interviews, so treat them like one. They represent the best candidates to the best jobs
- dress smart
- know your CV, know your technical skill set, know what you are looking for in the roles you want to do
- turn up on time
- build a rapport with your recruiter
- get them to manage your expectations - how do they work as a business, do they have any suitable roles now, how will they contact you to discuss opportunities (email only or phone calls)
- explain your availability for interview - is it easiest at the beginning or end of the day, how much notice do you need prior to interview etc...
- explain your salary expectation as well as additional benefits you need in order to accept a role - this will make sure they are up front with their client about what needs to be offered - this avoids you investing the time in a role / company that you wouldn't work for because they can't match your expectations


Interview advice:
Know your CV inside and out
Understand the job spec and be able to explain how you can peform the tasks required to do the role
Know who the company are, what they do and any other information you can find out about them
Thank the client for their time, explain you are looking forward to hearing back and ask them whether they have any concerns over your ability to perform the role (if they do, it gives you an opportunity to address these)

Conduct your own search:
Do your own research via linkedin, indeed and job boards - it is true that recruiters do not work with every client nor do they fill every role. A lot of clients in today's market will have a direct sourcing team who look to identify candidates. These teams will post adverts on their company website as well as LinkedIn

And finally:
Get on LinkedIn - network, network, network


Good luck

 

[guest100718]

A lot of companies will only go through recruitment agencies, I kno we do for new IT recruits. The idea is that they weed out the jokers but quite a few still get through!

As for telling your boss.. don't

 

[SocketRocket]

In some countries its normal to have a telephone or skype interview first due to the geography. Imagine in the USa or Australia for example, it would be tough asking someone to come a few thousand miles for a chat.