Is this just an American thing?

[Hacker Khan]

Totally agree that tees should be spaced out more, but the last thing i want is to be introduced to a system that makes the course shorter, most courses i have played regularly at are 6650 or less (Home course for many years was 5850) making these already short courses shorter to remove stigma for some would make many golfers unhappy I am sure.

I would like to see a standard deal
BACK TEES
then 20s, 40s, 60s, 80s 100s

So obviously in my numbered system you the 20s are 20 yards forward from the back tees etc
Once you are sub 90 on the 60s you are allowed on the 40s and so on

Thing is though, if someone was only good enough to play of the 60s I would play off those tees too, i think it is pretty antisocial to play from different parts of the course if you are playing together in a bounce game!

Only ever played off a different tee once and that was because I wanted to play a long par 5 at full length as it was the longest hole I had ever been on and we had a nice breeze

Why can courses not be made shorter? There is an awful mindset in golf that a course is only a proper challenge if it is long. With a bit of imagination on tee placements you can introduce more challenges and ensure that people don't just reach for the driver on most holes, make them think a bit round the course instead of just it being a test of how far you can blast it each time. As to be honest those types of courses tend to be very dull and boring to me. Give me a 330 yard strategic par 4 where you have to place your drive instead of a 420 yard par 4 where you can just blast away any day.

 

[nickjdavis]

Think FD is alluding to the fact that only one set of tees has an SSS relative to a women handicap. The rest are rated for male handicaps.

Yeah I realised about four hours after posting that I'd forgotten that FD was a lady and my suggestion was utter gumpf!!

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

Why can courses not be made shorter? There is an awful mindset in golf that a course is only a proper challenge if it is long. With a bit of imagination on tee placements you can introduce more challenges and ensure that people don't just reach for the driver on most holes, make them think a bit round the course instead of just it being a test of how far you can blast it each time. As to be honest those types of courses tend to be very dull and boring to me. Give me a 330 yard strategic par 4 where you have to place your drive instead of a 420 yard par 4 where you can just blast away any day.

I hit the ball pretty far, a 420 yard hole is a challenge for the average golfer, hitting a long iron, hybrid or wood in give THEM the option to hit shorter sure but do not force it on everyon

I always say GIVE OPTIONS, but then i would over ride this with I would always play on the tee my pals or playing partners were using as its a social game, i still do not get the USA thing of people playing off different tees, to me its antisocial and odd.

FORCING good ball strikers to play a shortened course makes no sense, taking a 420 yard hole to 330 yards would be insane, if you have the land, give the option

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I hit the ball a long way, the result is hitting a lot of wedges, hitting wedges to most holes is not particularly satisfying, i always say GIVE OPTIONS, but then i would over ride this with I would always play on the tee my pals or playing partners were using as its a social game.

FORCING good ball strikers to play a shortened course makes no sense, taking a 420 yard hole to 330 yards would be insane

The average and majority of the golfers don't hit it a long way - golf courses should be set up to be playable for the majority of golfers not the long hitters.

There are plenty of ways to make shorter courses more challenging and hard to play for all players. It's only the top 1% of players that can out power a golf course - are you in that top 1% ? If not then a short course will just be as challenging for you

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

The average and majority of the golfers don't hit it a long way - golf courses should be set up to be playable for the majority of golfers not the long hitters.

There are plenty of ways to make shorter courses more challenging and hard to play for all players. It's only the top 1% of players that can out power a golf course - are you in that top 1% ? If not then a short course will just be as challenging for you

I said GIVE OPTIONS
do not force everyone to play shorter holes when there is land available
I would be in the 1%

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I said GIVE OPTIONS
do not force everyone to play shorter holes when there is land available
I would be in the 1%

So you're a tour pro then ?
That's the top 1% of golfers.

A course is set up for the majority of the golfers who play that course.

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

No i am no tour pro, top 1% would be around 300,000 golfers by the way

Yes a course is set up for the majority, but i responded to a guy saying make it interesting make the 420 hole 330 course does not have to be long, as a long hitter there is a limit to how much enjoyment there is to be had playing 330 yard par 4s, there have to be some where you are actually hitting a second shot in that is not just a chip from around the green

If you have the land USE IT
SIMPLES

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No i am no tour pro

Yes a course is set up for the majority, but i responded to a guy saying make it interesting make the 420 hole 330 course does not have to be long, as a long hitter there is a limit to how much enjoyment there is to be had playing 330 yard par 4s, there have to be some where you are actually hitting a second shot in that is not just a chip from around the green

If you have the land USE IT
SIMPLES

Then you aren't in the top 1% of golfers

And there are plenty short par 4 holes on golf courses that provide plenty challenges

Just because there is land available doesn't mean it must be used - any extensions or reductions must be in keeping with the course layout and character

Being a "long hitter" doesn't mean that a short course isn't enjoyable.

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

Then you aren't in the top 1% of golfers

And there are plenty short par 4 holes on golf courses that provide plenty challenges

Just because there is land available doesn't mean it must be used - any extensions or reductions must be in keeping with the course layout and character

Being a "long hitter" doesn't mean that a short course isn't enjoyable.

You never said top 1% of golfers

You said top 1% of players that can out power a golf course, with regards to power I am firmly in the 1% that is the obvious context although you have amended your position to golfers, presumably so you can be right.

If you check your maths you would work out that the top 1% of golfers would include half a dozen from your club and they aint tour pros either.

I drove at one point or another every hole on the front nine of one of my old clubs, is that fun? Nope its boring, if there is land, give options pretty obvious imo.

The ONLY time i ever played off a different tee to my playing partners was at the Dukes course on the long par 5, as i posted earlier in the thread it was the longest hole I had ever been on so wanted to play from the back, i find it out when people play from different tees, but by all means offer as many options as is possible.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You never said top 1% of golfers
You said top 1% with reference to power, that is the obvious context.
If you check your maths you would work out that the top 1% of golfers would include half a dozen from your club and they aint tour pros either.
I drove at one point or another every hole on the front nine of one of my old clubs, is that fun? Nope its boring, if there is land, give options pretty obvious imo.

The ONLY time i ever played off a different tee to my playing partners was at the Dukes course on the long par 5, as i posted earlier in the thread it was the longest hole I had ever been on so wanted to play from the back

The context is as I said only the top 1% of players have a chance of over powering a golf course - in fact it's prob less than that ( if you care to read back you will see it quite clearly I'm talking about the best golfers around )

There I no one in my club in the top 1% of golfers - even the county champ.

When it comes to pro Am's the regional pros don't over power short courses.

The length of the course doesn't automatically suggest there is no enjoyment for someone who can hit the ball a good distance.

I have played all many of courses from differing lengths and all have their own challenge - just saying "if there is land give options" is an empty statement really because it's never that simple for golf clubs to do. It's also not just about putting extra yardage on - it's placing hazards or shaping fairways to force longer hitters to think about where they land

What golf club do you play at and HC are you ?

If your course is too short for you why haven't you moved ?

Will say the statement again - the majority of golf courses in the country are designed and set up with the average club golfer in mind - the average club golfer find 350-400 yard par fours a challenge hence why that's the length you will find most of them

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

The context is as I said only the top 1% of players have a chance of over powering a golf course - in fact it's prob less than that ( if you care to read back you will see it quite clearly I'm talking about the best golfers around )

There I no one in my club in the top 1% of golfers - even the county champ.
The top 1% of golfers is 300,000 golfers, I am sure the county champ is in there

When it comes to pro Am's the regional pros don't over power short courses
Perhaps i hit it further than them?

The length of the course doesn't automatically suggest there is no enjoyment for someone who can hit the ball a good distance
Well I can tell you, its boring hitting drive chip all day

I have played all many of courses from differing lengths and all have their own challenge - just saying "if there is land give options" is an empty statement really because it's never that simple for golf clubs to do.
For you less options is better?
It's also not just about putting extra yardage on - it's placing hazards or shaping fairways to force longer hitters to think about where they land

If you put me on a front tee I will not see the hazards that short hitters see

What golf club do you play at and HC are you

I did play at Craigmillar Park in Edinburgh, but moved as it was too short

If your course is too short for you why haven't you moved ?

See above

Will say the statement again - the majority of golf courses in the country are designed and set up with the average club golfer in mind - the average club golfer find 350-400 yard par fours a challenge hence why that's the length you will find most of them

If there is space, use it, given i posted first and you jumped in, someone said that making long holes SHORTER for variety and to take away stigma is a good idea, i disagree as you are making the course even shorter for no reason.

We all play different games, the course should offer OPTIONS, perhaps you are a short hitter and it is hard for you to grasp that using a driver and a wedge all day is not thrilling 350 yard par 4s have their place and so do 460 yard par 4s, if there is room GIVE ME BOTH!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just saying "if there is space use it " doesn't really quantify anything does it

Where do you play your golf now ? Are you a top amateur ? I'm guessing as it appears you are such a long hitter then you must be a top top golfer ? Plus HC maybe ? Im guessing the recent years comp results at your previous club will have you winning everything ?

Ok I'll say It a bit simpler - the only players that can out power golf courses are the best players in the world ( forget percentages but the top pros ) - county champs , club pros , top amateurs and even lower your players don't out power golf courses

Seen plenty top players struggle with short holes because it does ad variety and makes the players think instead of just driving

But then all us on here are the top players - we are all your bog standard average club golfers and the golf clubs are built for us

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

There is NO variety if you never have to hit lengthy approach shots, you seem to miss this entirely.

You are very obviously trying to turn this into an argument, I am done posting on this thread.

 

[LanDog]

Length is the most boring way to make a hole challenging I think, a strategic course is a lot more interesting to play in my view.

Amateurs and pros are going to struggle on a strategic course which gives many different on how to play the hole but will still find it more fun tha a course which is stupidly long I think

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Length is the most boring way to make a hole challenging I think, a strategic course is a lot more interesting to play in my view.

Amateurs and pros are going to struggle on a strategic course which gives many different on how to play the hole but will still find it more fun tha a course which is stupidly long I think

Spot on - many a fun can be had on a par 4 with a short landing area surrounded by bunkers but a slight chance of being able to drive it etc

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Length is the most boring way to make a hole challenging I think, a strategic course is a lot more interesting to play in my view.

Amateurs and pros are going to struggle on a strategic course which gives many different on how to play the hole but will still find it more fun tha a course which is stupidly long I think

However it is the way of the modern world and it ain't going to change soon. That is why you see so many old courses (Colt designed etc) in top 100 lists. These designers knew how to make a hole a challenge without it being a driver and a fairway wood every time. Strategic bunkering, false fronts, and just the whiff of being able to drive a short par 4 but with a risk involved are far better ways of doing it. However in the modern world distance seems to be king

 

[LanDog]

However it is the way of the modern world and it ain't going to change soon. That is why you see so many old courses (Colt designed etc) in top 100 lists. These designers knew how to make a hole a challenge without it being a driver and a fairway wood every time. Strategic bunkering, false fronts, and just the whiff of being able to drive a short par 4 but with a risk involved are far better ways of doing it. However in the modern world distance seems to be king

Distance is king by mistake. The R&A and the USGA cocked up the ball, (more so when it comes to the pro game) this means courses have had to be adapted in order to combat the distance the ball is going.

This means thick rough which really offers no option to the player other than wedging it onto the fairway in a lot of cases.
It also means growing the rough out onto where the fairway should be, so a drive that would be in prime position on a normal day with the best approach into the green is now entangled a grassy mess. To me this makes golf less interesting because the players can't be as inventive with their shot.

Another fault in the ball is that it can't be shaped as much, it will spin off axis but not 'bend' in the same way as a balata ball would.

The classic courses have been altered a lot today, Augusta wasn't supposed to be a tree lined course

Augusta itself is big part of the problem I think, the endless money pot they have accompanied by the scope of the property available has kind of help disguise the problem and since it is one of the most popular and well known courses in the world due to the fact it is on show every year.