is there a new on dmds (mobile phones)

[beggsy]

I got told while playing yesterday our club are allowing the use of mobile phones to be used as dmds. I am still under the impression if they arr capable of downloading apps they are still not allowed can anyone tell me if im right or wrong cheers beggsy

 

[HawkeyeMS]

There was a discussion in the rules section about it earlier this year. Some things have definitely changed or been clarified but I can't for the life of me remember if they made it any clearer

Thread here...http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?63040-Smartphones-now-legal&highlight=Mobile+phone

 

[rosecott]

Nothing really changed in January this year apart from clarifying the situation regarding compasses - allowed. Here is one of the FAQs from the R & A website:

Q. What about multi-functional devices, such as a mobile phone, with a distance-measuring application?

"A. On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text, email or to look up general information, provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you cannot make a phone call to ask for advice.

When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are other features or applications on the phone that can specifically gauge or measure conditions that might affect the player’s play, such as an anemometer or thermometer, this would render the device non-conforming for use as a distance-measuring device, regardless of the fact that these other features or applications are used or not."

That's all quite clear now, isn't it?

 

[beggsy]

Thanks rosescott it does I think mean no mobiles allowed as dmds

 

[Rooter]

Thanks rosescott it does I think mean no mobiles allowed as dmds

oh no it doesn't![panto mode]

 

[bobsmo]

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/...les-Regarding-Distance-Measuring-Devices.aspx

 

[mefromhere]

As long as your phone doesn't have the capability to measure external factors such as pressure, temperature, wind speed etc then you are able to use it as a DMD. You are then trusted to not use any apps on your phone such as the camera or spirit level to influence your play.

 

[Khamelion]

Nothing really changed in January this year apart from clarifying the situation regarding compasses - allowed. Here is one of the FAQs from the R & A website:

Q. What about multi-functional devices, such as a mobile phone, with a distance-measuring application?

"A. On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text, email or to look up general information, provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you cannot make a phone call to ask for advice.

When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are other features or applications on the phone that can specifically gauge or measure conditions that might affect the player’s play, such as an anemometer or thermometer, this would render the device non-conforming for use as a distance-measuring device, regardless of the fact that these other features or applications are used or not."

That's all quite clear now, isn't it?

The way I understand the above would be that mobile phones [Smart phones] are allowed as long as all weather related apps, map apps that can give height differential, compass apps, temperature apps are removed and that the only golf related app is a course GPS app, that doesn't feature any of the aforementioned abilities.

 

[duncan mackie]

I got told while playing yesterday our club are allowing the use of mobile phones to be used as dmds. I am still under the impression if they arr capable of downloading apps they are still not allowed can anyone tell me if im right or wrong cheers beggsy

probably not for the last time..........

the KEY change is the clarification that the existence of an accelerometer (tilt sensor) on a multi function device (mobile phone) does not render the device non-conforming simply because it could, in the right hands etc, measure slopes and the tilt of a green. it is still a breach of the rules to use it to measure this of course!

the reason this was key is because nearly every phone had one (all but 2 as far as I was aware!) - the reason for the change is that the chances of anyone using it in this way are remote = and it would be very obvious if they were!

the change in the wider ruling in respect of the use of compasses has also helped

so now we are in a situation where -
1. as long as the device doesn't have a hardware sensor for temperature, windspeed or barometric pressure
2. any software application is conforming
it will be meet the requirements of a compliant DMD

most iPhones are now fine

 

[Bucket92]

Basically using a smart phone is still illegal as DMD's because they all contain at least one of those features

 

[duncan mackie]

The way I understand the above would be that mobile phones [Smart phones] are allowed as long as all weather related apps, map apps that can give height differential, compass apps, temperature apps are removed and that the only golf related app is a course GPS app, that doesn't feature any of the aforementioned abilities.

no

having an application that does such things is not, in itself, a barrier to use or a breach - using the app to do this would be. the actual GPS application being used must only provide distance information.

having a hardware sensor in the device that records, for example, temperature, is an unsurmountable barrier.

 

[mefromhere]

Basically using a smart phone is still illegal as DMD's because they all contain at least one of those features

One of what features? I can't think of any phones that are now illegal

 

[duncan mackie]

Basically using a smart phone is still illegal as DMD's because they all contain at least one of those features

basically - this is wrong

 

[Khamelion]

The way I understand the above would be that mobile phones [Smart phones] are allowed as long as all weather related apps, map apps that can give height differential, compass apps, temperature apps are removed and that the only golf related app is a course GPS app, that doesn't feature any of the aforementioned abilities.

no

having an application that does such things is not, in itself, a barrier to use or a breach - using the app to do this would be. the actual GPS application being used must only provide distance information.

having a hardware sensor in the device that records, for example, temperature, is an unsurmountable barrier.

I would have to disagree, unless I'm interpreting the below wrong

"When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are other features or applications on the phone that can specifically gauge or measure conditions that might affect the player’s play, such as an anemometer or thermometer, this would render the device non-conforming for use as a distance-measuring device, regardless of the fact that these other features or applications are used or not."

Therefore, it would appear that smart phones are allowed as DMD's as long as the only app downloaded to the phone measures distance only. If other apps have been downloaded that can provide anything else other than distance, the phone is then non conforming.

 

[Foxholer]

I would have to disagree, unless I'm interpreting the below wrong

"When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are other features or applications on the phone that can specifically gauge or measure conditions that might affect the player’s play, such as an anemometer or thermometer, this would render the device non-conforming for use as a distance-measuring device, regardless of the fact that these other features or applications are used or not."

Therefore, it would appear that smart phones are allowed as DMD's as long as the only app downloaded to the phone measures distance only. If other apps have been downloaded that can provide anything else other than distance, the phone is then non conforming.

Don't attempt to interpret it! Just read it literally and apply it!
You have interpreted it (or, more likely, worded your interpretation) wrongly btw. GPS app isn't required to be the only app downloaded. All your non golf related apps are fine.

So (basically) no apps that can 'suggest a club' allowed; ditch the thermometer app;

 

[duncan mackie]

I would have to disagree, unless I'm interpreting the below wrong

"When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are other features or applications on the phone that can specifically gauge or measure conditions that might affect the player’s play, such as an anemometer or thermometer, this would render the device non-conforming for use as a distance-measuring device, regardless of the fact that these other features or applications are used or not."

Therefore, it would appear that smart phones are allowed as DMD's as long as the only app downloaded to the phone measures distance only. If other apps have been downloaded that can provide anything else other than distance, the phone is then non conforming.

It's not you, or you interpretation; but the wording chosen. My wording probably falls into this too

There have been many wordings, and even the latest suffers slightly in confusing apps, features and hardware functionality.

If you look closely at the latest wordings (that quoted will do) you will see what they are trying to say and how, possibly in the interests of brevity, they continue to confuse things! My choice of wording in response to your post probably falls into this too; and I apologise.


I hope we can agree that an 'App' cannot measure or gauge anything? This capability requires hardware (their term 'features') so you can discount that side of things completely. They have continually highlighted that weather, even local weather, applications aren't an issue unless they can provide accurate information that could assist a player - in practice this has been bought down to the actual measurement of such conditions by the player in his location.

The main use of an application that would breach the rules is one that takes other information and computes, recommends, advises in relation to a shot. The example given is of one that recommends a specific club. It is because this information has, to date, been a functionality within GPS/DMD applications themselves I worded my response as above. Were a stand alone application that interacted with the measurement of distance app and possibly accessed third party data via the internet to calculate height differentials and provide slope data, and even a club selection then yes, this would be a breach.

As a practical example I've approved Golfshot on an iphone 4 for one member but only after he confirmed he doesn't have the Golfscape add on on his phone. It's possible that Golfscape is OK but I would have had to make further enquires to have approved it because I don't know exactly what it's doing from the available information!

I hope this helps

 

[Bucket92]

basically - this is wrong

iPhones all have weather apps which can't be uninstalled which measure temperature and wind speed do they not?

 

[Bucket92]

I'm happy enough to be told otherwise so I can use my phone as a DMD in comps

 

[ger147]

no

having an application that does such things is not, in itself, a barrier to use or a breach - using the app to do this would be. the actual GPS application being used must only provide distance information.

having a hardware sensor in the device that records, for example, temperature, is an unsurmountable barrier.

I'm guessing my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 remains non-confirming as it still has all of the following sensors, the ones in bold being the issue:

- Accelerometer, Geomagnetic, Gyro, RGB light, Barometer, Proximity, Gesture, Temperature & Humidity, Hall available

 

[Spuddy]

iPhones all have weather apps which can't be uninstalled which measure temperature and wind speed do they not?

They don't measure temp/wind speed, they access weather reports which is allowed