Is It Really Slow Play?

[Deleted member 16999]

Following on from ChrisD's thread about one member of his 4 Ball, it seems the slow players are affecting us more than them.
IMO slow play is not being ready to play, bag miles from the shot etc, but it seems with so much publicity about slow play some of us are teeing off on the 1st and immediately worried about pace of play, should we be more realistic and expect the pace of play will ebb and flow and so long as it doesn't get silly, play your own game.
To me depending on the comp I would expect our 4Ball to take anywhere between 3hr 20 and 4 hrs,
Obviously I am not talking about playing as a single or friendly game.
It just seems to me more "aware" golfers are being bothered than the problem golfers and we are trying to finish the 18 holes as quick as we can to avoid being labelled slow!

 

[Oddsocks]

I think the way forward is for new golfers to have a basic lesson on how to behave I a course.

* walking straight to their ball from the tee shot, not to each other's to keep the chatter going

* leaving your bag near the exit of that whole to the next or at least near the pin so they can collect it quickly

* marking the card on the way to the next tee / or after you have played the following tee shot

There are loads but these type of things speed play up hugely. A lot of golfers think because they have joined a course/ have a handicap / have been playing a while they don't have to think about stuff like this.

As an example my laser is out my bag and My glove is on before I'm even at my ball, I already know what the wind is doing. Bag down, zap, club selected and I'm in preshot mode.

 

[MashieNiblick]

I know what you mean. Like you I find a round can vary by a lot and not necessarily feel "slow", and there is a degree of subjectivity around what is "slow". I have 2 "tests". To me it is "slow" when
1. It takes longer than 4.30 to get round. That will always feel slow.
2. We are losing ground on the game in front and the group behind are waiting for us to play.

 

[JohnnyDee]

I believe in a previous golf thread there were some official stats (English Golf Union or something similar) that shows the average 4-Ball was taking between 4.00 and 4.20 but I may have got that wrong. Your 3.20 seems very nippy indeed.

We tend to take about 4 hours including a halfway hut stop.

 

[Slab]

I was just thinking along similar lines

This weeks slow player can just as easily be waiting on every tee next week without changing any of their behaviours. Some earlier group will set the pace of the day

When a hole is lost we all know that it’ll be walking faster, ready golf etc that will get back some of the lost time. Surely no one thinking they’ll actually close the gap to the group in front by rushing our own shots by 5 seconds, so why rush it?

 

[Stuey01]

There was some right old moaning going on about the pace of play on Saturday morning. There was one particular culprit a few groups in front being blamed.

My group waited on most shots, and on the 17th whilst we were waiting for the fairway to clear to play our tee shots the group behind was stood watching us tee off.

So it felt pretty slow.

Looked at my watch walking off the 18th and it was bang on 4 hours, which is a bit slow, 3:45 is a decent moderate pace round filton, but not too bad for a Saturday morning. Certainly not commensurate with the level of moaning.

What happened was you had a few quick players grouped together in my group and the one behind, and some more deliberate (not slow, per se) players in front. Just one of those things, was a beautiful day and a good group so no worries.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I believe in a previous golf thread there were some official stats (English Golf Union or something similar) that shows the average 4-Ball was taking between 4.00 and 4.20 but I may have got that wrong. Your 3.20 seems very nippy indeed.

We tend to take about 4 hours including a halfway hut stop.

The 3:20 would be for a 4BBB Stableford or Foursomes,
I also think courses themselves put undue pressure of players, I played in a 3 Ball in the County 3rd Div Championship at the weekend and all 3 of us were playing the course for the first time, never lost pace with the group in front and we Tee'd off in 10 min intervals, the course had signs at 6, 9, & 12 telling people there expected time to this point, but was that for a single or 4 Ball or in comp or bounce game?

 

[Slab]

......
As an example my laser is out my bag and My glove is on before I'm even at my ball, I already know what the wind is doing. Bag down, zap, club selected and I'm in preshot mode.

To be honest if you keep your glove on, zap as you walk and don't put your bag down I think you could cut several more seconds off your round time. There's always one who wants to take their own sweet time!

 

[SugarPenguin]

A lot of things have been mentioned but it only needs one group to cock everything up.

I cannot remember the last time I had a round where I did not have to wait for the group in front.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

A lot of things have been mentioned but it only needs one group to cock everything up.

I cannot remember the last time I had a round where I did not have to wait for the group in front.

Agreed, but the issue is how you deal with it, if it's a group out of sight the frustrations tend to manifest themselves on the groups around you.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It really is simple. If your group has lost a hole and the group behind has waited for your group on more than just a couple of occasions, then you let them through without further consideration. But in letting the group through you and the other group play sensible 'play up and through' golf to minimise the delay.

And if you are the group that has been let through then you get out of the way as quickly as possible - not rushing but walking more quickly than you would normally do between shots and being brisk clearing the green and immediate surrounds of green; sso such as putting clubs back in your bag, noting scores, holing out when you don't need to; fiddling with clothing etc can all wait a moment as you move away from the green. And as you are the group that has been let through you will most likely have a clear hole in front of you, so your objective must be to catch up the group in front.

 

[patricks148]

one of the main problems is that slow guys don't think they are slow and its ok to take your time.

at our place, all the comp entry s have been asked to state the finish time on the card.

We has two of the slowest players at the club in front of us a couple of weeks ago. They tee'd off 20 mins in front of us and played as a two ball, by the time we caught them on the 6th they had already lost 2 holes on the group in front, we then waited on every shot coming in.
Both didn't put the finish time on the card. when i jarred on of them in the bar after, he said they were'nt slow and only took 4 hours. when i asked him how he came to that conclusion? We took 4 hrs 5 mins and they tee's off 20 mins before us.

almost four and a half hours for a 2 ball that lost 2 holes on a 3 ball!!!!

 

[chrisd]

Yay

I think the way forward is for new golfers to have a basic lesson on how to behave I a course.

* walking straight to their ball from the tee shot, not to each other's to keep the chatter going

* leaving your bag near the exit of that whole to the next or at least near the pin so they can collect it quickly

* marking the card on the way to the next tee / or after you have played the following tee shot

There are loads but these type of things speed play up hugely. A lot of golfers think because they have joined a course/ have a handicap / have been playing a while they don't have to think about stuff like this.

As an example my laser is out my bag and My glove is on before I'm even at my ball, I already know what the wind is doing. Bag down, zap, club selected and I'm in preshot mode.

100% this ^

 

[Neilds]

Does the act of letting a group through also contribute to the 'slow' play by allowing the following groups to concertina up? What do people think is the right place to allow a group through - apart from the obvious one when you are searching for a ball?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Does the act of letting a group through also contribute to the 'slow' play by allowing the following groups to concertina up? What do people think is the right place to allow a group through - apart from the obvious one when you are searching for a ball?

It can - so you understand and put into practice what I'll call 'play up and through' golf. You wave the following group up but continue to play until the point they are ready to actually play through you. This will mean that you continue to play the hole - you don't just stop dead once you've called the group behind through. But it's not part of 'slow play' as such and if done properly won't introduce much of , if any, a delay - especially if the group let through gets it's act in gear and plays up and through briskly and then chases the group ahead now at least a whole hole clear.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yay

100% this ^

Golfers have just got to be told when joining - and reminded regularly - that it is there reponsibility to maintain their place on the course and that as a member you are both expected to let a group behind through if you are slow - and also that it is absolutely appropriate, acceptable and required that a group being held up asks to play through,

We should not be hesitant about letting a group through; concerned about asking to be let through; or resentful about being asked.

 

[Foxholer]

It really is simple. If your group has lost a hole ....

Many folk have a misguided impression of what 'lost a hole' is too!

Remember that you start almost a hole after - without having lost a hole! - the group ahead! If it's a Par 3, you really do start a hole after! Those players, up the group in front's backsides, who think that group has 'lost a hole' because they are not also up the group in front's backsides are simply wrong - and are as much a cause of the 'problem' as those who are occasionally slow!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It really is simple. If your group has lost a hole and the group behind has waited for your group on more than just a couple of occasions, then you let them through without further consideration. But in letting the group through you and the other group play sensible 'play up and through' golf to minimise the delay.

And if you are the group that has been let through then you get out of the way as quickly as possible - not rushing but walking more quickly than you would normally do between shots and being brisk clearing the green and immediate surrounds of green; sso such as putting clubs back in your bag, noting scores, holing out when you don't need to; fiddling with clothing etc can all wait a moment as you move away from the green. And as you are the group that has been let through you will most likely have a clear hole in front of you, so your objective must be to catch up the group in front.

Agree with everything you say upto the point below
"And as you are the group that has been let through you will most likely have a clear hole in front of you, so your objective must be to catch up the group in front"
Why start chasing a group, if you play normally that should be sufficient, it's not my responsibility to try and speed up to the possible detriment of my game if the group in front of me was slow,

 

[GB72]

At my club the line I am hearing more and more is 'I only get to play once a week, I pay the same as everyone else and I am not being rushed'.

My biggest issue at weekends is the group sizes that go out. The course at weekends is in a large majority, 3 or 4 balls. You then get the odd 2 ball or even lone golfer who want to speed round and expect to play through the entire field on a busy course. That slow up everyone and only actually benefits one group. Yesterday I was playing in a mixed 4 ball match and the last group out. We had a lone golfer waiting on the tee to go off as soon as we finished and the tee re-opened. When I pointed out the situation, he was convinced that he would be allowed to play through 8 groups in a club match but finally decided to play a different loop of holes first after I had explained that this was unlikely to occur. On a busy weekend it is unreasonable for a smaller group to expect to play through but they are often the ones in the bar afterwards complaining about pace of play.

We have 3 loops of 9 and I have often suggested that one loop of 9 be reserved for smaller groups but so far no dice on that one.

 

[duncan mackie]

one of the main problems is that slow guys don't think they are slow and its ok to take your time.

at our place, all the comp entry s have been asked to state the finish time on the card.

We has two of the slowest players at the club in front of us a couple of weeks ago. They tee'd off 20 mins in front of us and played as a two ball, by the time we caught them on the 6th they had already lost 2 holes on the group in front, we then waited on every shot coming in.
Both didn't put the finish time on the card. when i jarred on of them in the bar after, he said they were'nt slow and only took 4 hours. when i asked him how he came to that conclusion? We took 4 hrs 5 mins and they tee's off 20 mins before us.

almost four and a half hours for a 2 ball that lost 2 holes on a 3 ball!!!!

this sums up the crux of the real issue for me - clubs do not wish to deal firmly with such players and end up making huge mountains that simply create mental issues for those who are sensitive to them (chris and I definitely fall into these categories!) and our enjoyment of the game fundamentally collapses at any time there's anyone else on the course!

not every group who arrives at the 18th green with a gap to those finishing ahead is slow, not every gap is inherently caused by slow play and not everyone who had a pre shot routine from hell and marks their ball every time they putt is slow ..... but it only takes a little constructive observation to establish those who do create a problem (and fundamentally they represent a very small percentage of club golfers in these environments.

getting caught up behind 20 4 balls playing 'a society day' is a completely different thing IMO