Is a divot a loose impediment?

[Deleted member 1147]

The situation:
playing foresomes, my playing partner hit his pitch shot over a bunker and his divot landed in the bunker, about 4 feet from the ball of our playing partners. The guy about to play from the bunker then picked up and threw the divot back to my PP.

The question:
The divot was not affecting his stance, or the shot he had to play, but we weren't sure if there should be a penalty for moving a loose impediment in the bunker. As we knew you couldn't move a leaf, twigg, grass cutting etc. But can a divot be moved? We assumed that the player hitting the divot could retrieve it but can the other player (he only did it to assist so my PP didn't have to bother going into the bunker to retrieve it himself)?

 

[bernix]

imo a divot is a loose impediment, what else?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The situation:
playing foresomes, my playing partner hit his pitch shot over a bunker and his divot landed in the bunker, about 4 feet from the ball of our playing partners. The guy about to play from the bunker then picked up and threw the divot back to my PP.

The question:
The divot was not affecting his stance, or the shot he had to play, but we weren't sure if there should be a penalty for moving a loose impediment in the bunker. As we knew you couldn't move a leaf, twigg, grass cutting etc. But can a divot be moved? We assumed that the player hitting the divot could retrieve it but can the other player (he only did it to assist so my PP didn't have to bother going into the bunker to retrieve it himself)?

Prompts the general question about whether anything that ends up by or on your ball, or that affects your stance, that wasn't there when your ball came to rest - is that 'anything' a loose impediment.

 

[Foxholer]

My take from what was posted in the OP.

Firstly, you have mentioned 'playing partner(s)' twice, so one set of them must be either 'opponents' or 'fellow competitors' -which one depends on the format of the comp. I will assume that it was your actual playing partner (team-mate) who hit the shot over the bunker, depositing a divot into the bunker near to your opponents, so Foursomes Matchplay, though the actual ruling is the same for Foursomes Strokeplay as well - No Penalty!

As the guy in the bunker (your partner) is entitled to lie/conditions as they were when his ball came to rest (at least unaffected by action from opponents/fellow competitors), so the divot can certainly be removed from the bunker - provided that in doing so, he doesn't 'test the surface'! It matters not a jot as to who removes it! If it was your opponents (or fellow competitors) that removed the divot, your partner would also have been allowed to rake the bunker to reset it to as it was before the guy entered - again, providing that in doing so the surface 'wasn't tested'!

It might be a whole different scenario if the divot came to rest outside the bunker, but subsequently got blown back into it by a gust of wind!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

My take from what was posted in the OP.

Firstly, you have mentioned 'playing partner(s)' twice, so one set of them must be either 'opponents' or 'fellow competitors' -which one depends on the format of the comp. I will assume that it was your actual playing partner (team-mate) who hit the shot over the bunker, depositing a divot into the bunker near to your opponents, so Foursomes Matchplay, though the actual ruling is the same for Foursomes Strokeplay as well - No Penalty!

As the guy in the bunker (your partner) is entitled to lie/conditions as they were when his ball came to rest (at least unaffected by action from opponents/fellow competitors), so the divot can certainly be removed from the bunker - provided that in doing so, he doesn't 'test the surface'! It matters not a jot as to who removes it! If it was your opponents (or fellow competitors) that removed the divot, your partner would also have been allowed to rake the bunker to reset it to as it was before the guy entered - again, providing that in doing so the surface 'wasn't tested'!

It might be a whole different scenario if the divot came to rest outside the bunker, but subsequently got blown back into it by a gust of wind!

It was foresomes strokeplay, my foresomes partner hit the pitch shot, the "fellow competitior" was in the bunker and he was the one who picked up the divot.

So by removing the divot he wasn't moving a loose impediment, but was in fact returning the bunker to it's original condition before the pitch shot was played, so no penalty.
Thanks

 

[rulefan]

As the guy in the bunker (your partner) is entitled to lie/conditions as they were when his ball came to rest

But the OP says:

"The divot was not affecting his stance, or the shot he had to play, ..."

and 13-2/8 says:

Q.A player's lie, line of play or area of intended swing through the green is affected by a pitch-mark made by his partner's, his opponent's or a fellow-competitor's ball. Is the player entitled to repair the pitch-mark?

 

[drdel]

Has pragmatism and the real world got lost in our pedantry - really!

Play was not affected. Player should replacement his divot.

 

[Foxholer]

But the OP says:

"The divot was not affecting his stance, or the shot he had to play, ..."

and 13-2/8 says:

Q.A player's lie, line of play or area of intended swing through the green is affected by a pitch-mark made by his partner's, his opponent's or a fellow-competitor's ball. Is the player entitled to repair the pitch-mark?

H'mm!

So what's your take on whether a penalty would be due?

 

[backwoodsman]

H'mm!

So what's your take on whether a penalty would be due?

As it was for the care of the course, it may be pedantic to say so, but yes - a penalty. The thing to do was play his shot, then chuck it back. Or leave to the guy who chopped the divot in the first place.

Of course, it won't be an issue as of 2019

 

[Region3]

Isn't there something regarding matchplay that you can ignore an opponents breach, provided you don't collude with them to waive it?

If so, "thanks" for chucking the divot back and just play golf, regardless of whether it's technically a penalty or not.

 

[rulefan]

H'mm!

So what's your take on whether a penalty would be due?

Penalty I'm afraid.


Exception 2 of 13-4 only permits the player to "smooth sand or soil in a hazard provided this is for the sole purpose of caring for the course"