IOC/Olympics - Russia

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So despite the investigation finding there was state sponsered doping at Sochi the IOC haven't banned Russia from the Olympics at Rio but have said any Russian with a previous failed dope test can't compete and anyone who wants to compete with have to undergo strict tests

So the question is has the IOC bottled it and if it was another country would they be banned ?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
So despite the investigation finding there was state sponsered doping at Sochi the IOC haven't banned Russia from the Olympics at Rio but have said any Russian with a previous failed dope test can't compete and anyone who wants to compete with have to undergo strict tests

So the question is has the IOC bottled it and if it was another country would they be banned ?
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The lawyers have been in charge probably.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
So despite the investigation finding there was state sponsered doping at Sochi the IOC haven't banned Russia from the Olympics at Rio but have said any Russian with a previous failed dope test can't compete and anyone who wants to compete with have to undergo strict tests

So the question is has the IOC bottled it and if it was another country would they be banned ?
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Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? :rolleyes:
 
I feel that when the state sponsors doping and it's cover up, then the state should be banned and that the IOC have, as much expected, kop'd out !
 
The individual athletes who are innocent are representing a state that promoted the crime. As harsh as it is I feel those athletes should be banned from international competition until such time as Russia is (consistently) proven to be operating a clean policy.

Equally, where athletes are found to be taking banned substances without the knowledge of the state federation the state should still be banned. It's up to the individual states to ensure their athletes comply.

Alternatively, let's all just say, "there there, here's a big cuddle."
 
Hobbit said:
The individual athletes who are innocent are representing a state that promoted the crime. As harsh as it is I feel those athletes should be banned from international competition until such time as Russia is (consistently) proven to be operating a clean policy.

Equally, where athletes are found to be taking banned substances without the knowledge of the state federation the state should still be banned. It's up to the individual states to ensure their athletes comply.

Alternatively, let's all just say, "there there, here's a big cuddle."
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So if a UK athlete gets caught doping then the whole of the U.K. Olympians are banned ? Is that what you mean
 
Liverpoolphil said:
So if a UK athlete gets caught doping then the whole of the U.K. Olympians are banned ? Is that what you mean
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Yes that's exactly what I mean. When an athlete competes as an individual, he/she gets banned. When they are part of a national team, the national federation is responsible for testing them and passing them as clean.

Its harsh but it sends an unambiguous message to each of the countries. Test your athletes regularly to ensure they behave AND they will also be tested at every international meet.
 
Hobbit said:
Yes that's exactly what I mean. When an athlete competes as an individual, he/she gets banned. When they are part of a national team, the national federation is responsible for testing them and passing them as clean.

Its harsh but it sends an unambiguous message to each of the countries. Test your athletes regularly to ensure they behave AND they will also be tested at every international meet.
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Isn't the testing of the Athletes down to each individual sports body though as opposed to the nation - hence they are the ones that give out the ban ? And most sports are testing constantly with some on a weekly basis

But banning every single UK Olympian because one person fails a test ? Thats going beyond unfair
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Isn't the testing of the Athletes down to each individual sports body though as opposed to the nation - hence they are the ones that give out the ban ? And most sports are testing constantly with some on a weekly basis

But banning every single UK Olympian because one person fails a test ? Thats going beyond unfair
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In your opinion.

How clean do you think sport would be if the penalty was that harsh?

Do you want clean sports or not?
 
Hobbit said:
In your opinion.

How clean do you think sport would be if the penalty was that harsh?

Do you want clean sports or not?
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I think athletes are selfish and someone will always try and cheat regardless of the penalty - some people spend their whole life training to get to the Olympics and then to have it taken away because of one person in another sport is caught doping ? That IMO would ruin sport

Any ban should IMO be for life from the sport - punish that individual and ensure he never plays the sport again

Right now with Russia I would ban Russia from competing and anyone who is clean can prove it and compete under the Olympic flag
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I think athletes are selfish and someone will always try and cheat regardless of the penalty - some people spend their whole life training to get to the Olympics and then to have it taken away because of one person in another sport is caught doping ? That IMO would ruin sport

Any ban should IMO be for life from the sport - punish that individual and ensure he never plays the sport again

Right now with Russia I would ban Russia from competing and anyone who is clean can prove it and compete under the Olympic flag
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If, as you say, the national/sports bodies are doing their own testing, how come so many are failing the Olympic tests? I wonder how many other countries are.... negligent?

Sorry Phil but you aren't going to change my mind on this. And yes, any ban for an individual should be for life.
 
Hobbit said:
In your opinion.

How clean do you think sport would be if the penalty was that harsh?

Do you want clean sports or not?
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It's never going to be clean, the rewards are now to high and some will think worth taking the risk for.

There are also the times when an athlete can be caught out, Alan Baxter lost his bronze medal for using Vick not realising that the UK and US versions contained different substances.

However when it is so obviouse that the state had such a large part to play (Russian biathletes are regularly banned) then major sanctions should be enforced.
 
Hobbit said:
If, as you say, the national/sports bodies are doing their own testing, how come so many are failing the Olympic tests? I wonder how many other countries are.... negligent?

Sorry Phil but you aren't going to change my mind on this. And yes, any ban for an individual should be for life.
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That's when the major competition testing happens the rest the sporting bodies does is out of competition so not as regular

And if you take the Russians away from it - the percentage of people failing compared to the amount of competitiors - not even 1%

Add in the Russians and it's a lot more - there you have a state backed doping - that's a whole different story
 
Hobbit said:
If, as you say, the national/sports bodies are doing their own testing, how come so many are failing the Olympic tests? I wonder how many other countries are.... negligent?

Sorry Phil but you aren't going to change my mind on this. And yes, any ban for an individual should be for life.
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I agree and you have to question how many nations are at it and are weak in their testing methods. So many failing at Olympics begs the question. A failed test should mean a ban, once appeal processes are gone through
 
Liverpoolphil said:
That's when the major competition testing happens the rest the sporting bodies does is out of competition so not as regular

And if you take the Russians away from it - the percentage of people failing compared to the amount of competitiors - not even 1%

Add in the Russians and it's a lot more - there you have a state backed doping - that's a whole different story
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What I'm suggesting is be proactive in changing the story. And change it from near enough the grass roots level. Change it before they've bulked up. Trying to change something halfway through is difficult.

What has percentage got to do with it? The sport is either 100% clean or its dirty.

Sadly, things have got so bad I look at Bolt and say really? That is unfair - innocent until proven guilty, but the sport's reputation is shot.
 
Hobbit said:
What I'm suggesting is be proactive in changing the story. And change it from near enough the grass roots level. Change it before they've bulked up. Trying to change something halfway through is difficult.

What has percentage got to do with it? The sport is either 100% clean or its dirty.

Sadly, things have got so bad I look at Bolt and say really? That is unfair - innocent until proven guilty, but the sport's reputation is shot.
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I agree that changes need to be done earlier in the careers and there needs to be weekly drug testing for all professional athletes - certain more needs to be done

I think the sport is thankful that someone like Bolt or Farah are around - two athletes so vocal against drugs and beating people who have previously been banned for doping
 
Well my opinion, for what its worth, is that the Ruskies shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a sporting event until WADA have completely unfettered access. But lets be realistic, thats not going to happen on either count.
A sad state of affairs all round, especially for the clean Russian athletes, who must also be extremely brave individuals aswell, to stick two fingers ups to powers that be. :(
 
BesCumber said:
Well my opinion, for what its worth, is that the Ruskies shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a sporting event until WADA have completely unfettered access. But lets be realistic, thats not going to happen on either count.
A sad state of affairs all round, especially for the clean Russian athletes, who must also be extremely brave individuals aswell, to stick two fingers ups to powers that be. :(
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The majority of Russian sports men and women come under the umbrella of the armed forces so I doubt many two fingers are stuck up.
 
BesCumber said:
Well my opinion, for what its worth, is that the Ruskies shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a sporting event until WADA have completely unfettered access. But lets be realistic, thats not going to happen on either count.
A sad state of affairs all round, especially for the clean Russian athletes, who must also be extremely brave individuals aswell, to stick two fingers ups to powers that be. :(
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The sad thing is that every Russian medal won will now be viewed with an element of doubt. I also think, if they do retrospective tests after Rio as they have done recently for London, Beijing and beyond we'll be in exactly the same situation. Nothing can change until the IOC takes the only decision open and bans them and if the athletes want to compete, get a certificate from WADA and then compete as an unafiiliated athelte
 
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