• The Golf Monthly forums will be offline briefly for maintenance at 3pm GMT. We expect to be back online within 30 minutes, but will update the notice if anything should change. Thanks for your patience!

Internal out of bounds

richart

Major Champion
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
19,132
Location
Surrey
Visit site
Just found out today we have got rid of internal out of bounds on two of our holes for the next six months as a trial.

For those that know the course these are on the 4th (Stroke Index 1 and the 10th (Stroke Index 2) Not sure if I think it is a good idea or not. Not that keen on internal out of bounds normally but by playing down the 16th fairway on 4 and the 18th on 10 it could actually make the holes easier. It seems likely to slow play down whilst you have to wait for golfers to play from the wrong fairways.

I think that if we do abolish the internal out of bounds permanently, we should move the tee on four back into the trees to make it almost impossible to deliberately play down the wrong fairway. Not sure what could be done on 10 apart from planting some huge trees to stop a direct route to the 18th fairway.

Have a feeling the first time someone gets hit walking up their own fairway the trial may be over. In the meantime it does make two of the hardest holes on the course easier so not all bad for a wild driver like me.:whoo:

Anyone else got internal out of bounds, and do they work or should they be abolished. Also anyone that has played Blackmoor and can remember the holes what do you think.
 

virtuocity

Tour Winner
Joined
May 13, 2011
Messages
4,952
Location
Ayrshire
Visit site
I'm the opposite. On our only par 5 (9 hole course) I often see people aiming right on to the 3rd fairway up high which gives a lovely view of the 5th fairway which would be reachable with a hybrid.

I have never ventured up there as you can't see who is walking down the 3rd. I believe it should be white staked to protect golfers on both holes.
 

JustOne

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
14,803
www.justoneuk.com
I hate them, especially on holes where they just run parallel to another hole where you probably wouldn't get an advantage.

On holes where you could 'cut the corner' I suppose they have some merit... for example on a par 5 where you could reach the green easily in 2 if you just went across a couple of other fairways. Doesn't mean I like them though. Better tee placements should be an option in my book.... yet courses seem to hate spending money... even for a poxy tee box :confused:

Having them there doesn't really help golfers as plenty of people still hit OOB, so it's not exactly a safety thing.
 

HomerJSimpson

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
73,232
Location
Bracknell - Berkshire
Visit site
We use to have it down our par 5 15th to stop players going back down 14 as it was shorter but clearly dangerous hitting towards oncoming players. Got rid of after a year or so and I was very happy. It seemed unfair for those just tugging a tee shot a little left with no intention of trying to take advantage, to be punished. I guess it depends how dangerous it is on the course. Out of interest will you be taking the shorter route, assuming the adjacent hole was clear and it was safe to do so
 

richart

Major Champion
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
19,132
Location
Surrey
Visit site
I hate them, especially on holes where they just run parallel to another hole where you probably wouldn't get an advantage.

On holes where you could 'cut the corner' I suppose they have some merit... for example on a par 5 where you could reach the green easily in 2 if you just went across a couple of other fairways. Doesn't mean I like them though. Better tee placements should be an option in my book.... yet courses seem to hate spending money... even for a poxy tee box :confused:

We could move the tee back on the 4th James and it would make it an even harder and better hole. The old boys might complain though about not being able to reach the fairway over the heather.:whistle: The 10th is one of the best holes on the course, and you could only move the tee forward which would weaken the hole.

Having spoken to some low handicap members today, they are already driving down the 18th off the 10th as it is a shorter route and you get the advantage of a steeper hill. Not sure I would be wanting to walk up the 18th fairway when they are doing it.

I seem to remember in the US Open in the 70s/80s a player were driving amost sideways off one tee to shorten a hole. During the competition a tree was planted to stop them. Think it was Lon Hinkle, and it was called Hinkles tree.
 

richart

Major Champion
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
19,132
Location
Surrey
Visit site
We use to have it down our par 5 15th to stop players going back down 14 as it was shorter but clearly dangerous hitting towards oncoming players. Got rid of after a year or so and I was very happy. It seemed unfair for those just tugging a tee shot a little left with no intention of trying to take advantage, to be punished. I guess it depends how dangerous it is on the course. Out of interest will you be taking the shorter route, assuming the adjacent hole was clear and it was safe to do so

I will definitely give it a try, as they are two of the longest and hardest holes on the course, and I need all the extra yards off the tee I can get. I think if the Club can stop players deliberately playing down the wrong hole by moving a tee, or planting some trees it will work well. Nothing worse than starting on the 10th pushing your drive a little, and seeing it hit a tree and fly straight out of bounds. Happened to me in my only ever 36 holes competition at the Club and I started the day with a 9.:angry:
 

duncan mackie

Money List Winner
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
11,136
Visit site
the acid test is whether players really do elect to play via 'the wrong fairway'.

my memory isn't what it was but as I remembered it the best approach to 10 was from the 10th fairway - but it was easy to hit the trees right, and bouncing out onto the 18th and OOB could happen and would be considered somewhat unfortunate. at the time the OOB didn't seem inherently wrong.

playing out to 16 on 4 meant the requirement to play an even more accurate tee shot than playing straight down the 4th fairway - and brought even more heather into play? however there was a tree, or trees, long right that contibuted little in the overall playing of the hole .... the further left you held your drive the easier the approach to most pins. at the time the OOB made little sense. (unless I have the wrong hole completely!)
 

Blue in Munich

Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
14,099
Location
Worcester Park
Visit site
I hate them, especially on holes where they just run parallel to another hole where you probably wouldn't get an advantage.

On holes where you could 'cut the corner' I suppose they have some merit... for example on a par 5 where you could reach the green easily in 2 if you just went across a couple of other fairways. Doesn't mean I like them though. Better tee placements should be an option in my book.... yet courses seem to hate spending money... even for a poxy tee box :confused:

Having them there doesn't really help golfers as plenty of people still hit OOB, so it's not exactly a safety thing.

Couldn't agree more with this. I used to play occasionally at a club with 4 parallel fairways, when you were on the 2 central ones, the "wrong" fairways were OOB as a "safety measure". What happened? Golfers got more tense, steered rather than swung and probably even more ended up on the wrong fairway than if the OOB hadn't been there. Yet at the same time the when playing the two outer holes the internal OOB didn't count. So perfectly safe to hit onto the wrong fairway, and possibly hit someone when playing those holes then :confused:
 

Colin L

Tour Winner
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
5,513
Location
Edinburgh
Visit site
We recently had to introduce an internal OOB on one hole because of the danger to other players from long hitters choosing to play down the adjacent fairway. It's not great and long-term we need a natural way of preventing them. Trees take a long time to grow however and in the meantime we can't ignore the danger.

I do wonder if a club which knows that players are, as they were with us, deliberately endangering others to suit themselves but does nothing about it, is not leaving itself wide open to being found at least proportionately liable for any injuries caused. The finding of contributory fault against Niddrie Castle Course regarding an accident to a visiting golfer would suggest it would.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-15594541
 
Last edited:

HawkeyeMS

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
11,503
Location
Surrey
Visit site
We use to have it down our par 5 15th to stop players going back down 14 as it was shorter but clearly dangerous hitting towards oncoming players. Got rid of after a year or so and I was very happy. It seemed unfair for those just tugging a tee shot a little left with no intention of trying to take advantage, to be punished. I guess it depends how dangerous it is on the course. Out of interest will you be taking the shorter route, assuming the adjacent hole was clear and it was safe to do so

The thing with that OOB on 15 was that it was only there to stop the longer hitters going down 14. For most of us, going down 14 is of no benefit whatsoever as your second is at least partially blocked by a big tree. It's actually easier to hit the green in two going down the right fairway IMHO so made no sense having it there for 99.9% of the membership.

Personally, I don't like internal OOB, I understand there could be H&S reasons for it but the mere suggestion that you can be OOB while still on the course is a strange one to me.
 

pokerjoke

Money List Winner
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
10,852
Location
Taunton ,Somerset
Visit site
I cant see the advantage on the fourth.
As I remember its a straightish hole,and going up the wrong fairway would not
be an advantage.
However the 10th imo is a great driving hole,and I also wouldn't want to be walking
up the 18th either when balls are flying at me.
It will only take one person to be hit for it to change back.
We have internal out of bounds,we have a 170 yard range in between 4 and 10.
Its a pretty dangerous place to practice at times.
 

Doon frae Troon

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
19,086
Location
S W Scotland
Visit site
Internal OOB's are a sign of a poorly designed [or ancient] hole. It can generally be sorted by some clever tree/gorse planting close to the tee. I have a patch of gorse named after me by the members of a course where I applied this quite successfully.
 
Last edited:

MadAdey

Money List Winner
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
5,642
Location
Greensboro, North Carolina.
Visit site
I cant see the advantage on the fourth.
As I remember its a straightish hole,and going up the wrong fairway would not
be an advantage.
However the 10th imo is a great driving hole,and I also wouldn't want to be walking
up the 18th either when balls are flying at me.
It will only take one person to be hit for it to change back.

With you on this one. Only played once but if I remember correctly it a big old hit to get it onto the 16th fairway and a big risk taking over all that heather if you do not catch it right.

I can see what you say on the 10th though. That is a good driving hole that makes you do a lot of thinking and given the chance I would probably debate just smashing one down the 18th to leave an easier shot at the green.
 

HickoryShaft

Tour Rookie
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
1,166
Location
Grimsby UK
Visit site
Other than for the practice ground where it is needed there is one of ours which has this protection - between the par 5 4th and par 4 5th. OOB going up the par 5 as it is a dogleg and 'potentially' shorter if you went up the 5th. In practice it is not as there is an enormous line of poplar trees there so it is almost impossible to play that way. What it does do is force yopu to go round the dogleg so play the course the way it is meant to. Quite happy with the arrangement.

Interestingly it is not OOB on the way back so you can hit a dead straight drive too far and go through the same tree line and end up blocked out completely from the flag. Difference is that by the time it goes past the trees that way its not going to do much damage to anyone
 
S

Snelly

Guest
I think there is a place for internal out of bounds but it has to be in the right circumstances.

I can't quite see the point of an internal out of bounds on the 4th at Blackmoor but I do think that the 10th is a better hole for having OOB on the right, otherwise just belt a driver down the adjacent fairway and take the trees out of play and use the racing line. A daft decision relative to the 10th and hopefully your club will review this soon.
 

richart

Major Champion
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
19,132
Location
Surrey
Visit site
I think there is a place for internal out of bounds but it has to be in the right circumstances.

I can't quite see the point of an internal out of bounds on the 4th at Blackmoor but I do think that the 10th is a better hole for having OOB on the right, otherwise just belt a driver down the adjacent fairway and take the trees out of play and use the racing line. A daft decision relative to the 10th and hopefully your club will review this soon.

David, this is my thinking at the moment. When playing the 16th the 4th is not out of bounds, so think we could ditch the internal out of bounds from the 4th. You are right about the 10th, as it seems it is the long hitter who will be going down the 18th. Scratch golfer yesterday hit driver wedge into the 10th from the 18th fairway.:eek:
 
S

Snelly

Guest
. You are right about the 10th, as it seems it is the long hitter who will be going down the 18th. Scratch golfer yesterday hit driver wedge into the 10th from the 18th fairway.:eek:

Exactly! Proves the point I would say.

It would be nice to pop over for 18 holes with you at some stage. I have quite a bit of holiday left to take this year so let me know if you have a spare afternoon in November midweek and perhaps we can arrange a game?
 

richart

Major Champion
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
19,132
Location
Surrey
Visit site
Exactly! Proves the point I would say.

It would be nice to pop over for 18 holes with you at some stage. I have quite a bit of holiday left to take this year so let me know if you have a spare afternoon in November midweek and perhaps we can arrange a game?
PM sent.
 

richart

Major Champion
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
19,132
Location
Surrey
Visit site
Good news, internal out of bounds have been reintroduced before anyone got killed. 10th hole especially lost a lot of its character with golfers driving down the 18th to shorten the hole. Guarantee I will go OB on a least one if not both holes in my next competition round.:(

Apologies that this does not add anything to the wear do you stand on the tee argument.:whistle:
 
Last edited:
S

Snelly

Guest
Good news, internal out of bounds have been reintroduced before anyone got killed. 10th hole especially lost a lot of its character with golfers driving down the 18th to shorten the hole. Guarantee I will go OB on a least one if not both holes in my next competition round.:(

Apologies that this does not add anything to the wear do you stand on the tee argument.:whistle:

Nice to see that common sense has prevailed here.
 
Top