If someone plays your ball?

A

Alex1975

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Hi All,

I was out playing the annual family match last night at Batchworth Park. My brother in law hit a pull onto the fairway next to us, when we got to the scene of the crime there was no ball but there was a four ball walking up. One of said four ball said "oh are you playing a Titleist 4?" so he already knew he had hit my brothers ball (GRRRRRR!!!!!) seems he hit a straight shot back up parallel with our tee. It was a friendly match so he hit the ball back to my brother after showing him where he had found it and my bro took a free drop. As a little side story the guy said "I know where I hit it from as there is a huge divot" why the hell did you not fill it in then you nob!!!!

We got chatting in the bar afterwards and I wondered what would have been the proper course of action? If it were a comp what should my brother have done? played it where it sat post being hit by our idiot ball thief.


I know what the guy on the other hole would have to do and would lose as I have hit a stray ball in a comp myself and took the penilty (im my case just a stray ball not someone elses).


Thanks all


Alex
 
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DCB

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They are classed as an outside agency, if you see them play your ball or they admit to playing your ball. the ball is then played from the last known place without penalty.
 
A

Alex1975

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They are classed as an outside agency, if you see them play your ball or they admit to playing your ball. the ball is then played from the last known place without penalty.


Nice one, so we did the right thing then... thanks.
 

Colin L

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The chances are that you were correct in dropping a ball but in the first instance, when a ball is moved by an outside agency it must be replaced not dropped. If you cannot determine where to place or replace a ball, you then drop it. There is a possible argument here that if the guy was able to point to the divot he took that you could have determined where to replace it. If so, I would just assume without asking that he played the perfect iron shot and took the divot after the ball in which case you would replace just behind the divot, not in it! You would want to be sure that he was completely certain it was his own divot.

Your references are Rule 18-1 for a ball at rest moved by an outside agency and Rule 20-3c for the procedure if you cannot determine where to place or replace.
 

chrisd

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The chances are that you were correct in dropping a ball but in the first instance, when a ball is moved by an outside agency it must be replaced not dropped. If you cannot determine where to place or replace a ball, you then drop it. There is a possible argument here that if the guy was able to point to the divot he took that you could have determined where to replace it. If so, I would just assume without asking that he played the perfect iron shot and took the divot after the ball in which case you would replace just behind the divot, not in it! You would want to be sure that he was completely certain it was his own divot.

Your references are Rule 18-1 for a ball at rest moved by an outside agency and Rule 20-3c for the procedure if you cannot determine where to place or replace.


Wouldn't, in equity, you be allowed the same lie as you had when your ball came to rest?
 

palindromicbob

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Wouldn't, in equity, you be allowed the same lie as you had when your ball came to rest?

Yes. If the placing the ball on it's original spot means an area where the lie has been altered you may proceed to place it at the nearest lie which is similar and not more than one club length away. See Rule 18-3 note 2 which then refers to 20-3.

If the exact spot can't be determined then you drop as near as possilbe to the spot where it lay.

If there person hadn't owned up to playing the ball then it would have been counted as lost and therefore back to the tee to play the 3rd.
 
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MashieNiblick

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Wouldn't, in equity, you be allowed the same lie as you had when your ball came to rest?

Yes but no need to apply equity as it is specifically provided for under Rule 20-3(b)

"b. Lie of Ball to be Placed or Replaced Altered
If the original lie of a ball to be placed or replaced has been altered:
(i) except in a hazard, the ball must be placed in the nearest lie most similar to the original lie that is not more than one club-length from the original lie, not nearer the hole and not in a hazard;
(ii) in a water hazard, the ball must be placed in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the ball must be placed in the water hazard;
(iii) in a bunker, the original lie must be re-created as nearly as possible and the ball must be placed in that lie.

Note: If the original lie of a ball to be placed or replaced has been altered and it is impossible to determine the spot where the ball is to be placed or replaced, Rule 20-3b applies if the original lie is known, and Rule 20-3c applies if the original lie is not known."
 

Colin L

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Wouldn't, in equity, you be allowed the same lie as you had when your ball came to rest?

Indeed you are, though as mentioned not just in equity. I confess I was being a bit mischievous. But perhaps more seriously, a properly take divot is in front of the ball and replacing the ball would mean on the turf behind it - ie the lie you originally had.

This is an open question: would the existence of the divot in front of the replaced ball make it a materially different lie?
 
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