Identifying Ball in Bunker - But what was he thinking?

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Playing with a chap on Friday he told how - the previous day in the clubs main roll-up of the week - an experienced 7 handicapper he was playing with advised him of the following.

If your ball is in a bunker and you cannot identify it - you cannot lift it to identify it. There is a new ruling that says that he must play his ball as it lies and then go and check to see if it was his ball that he had hit. If it was then he continues play. If it was not his ball then he must go back to the bunker; replace the ball as best he could to replicate the lie; and then find his own to play

My PP could not recall for certain - but he thought he was told that he would incur a penalty for playing the wrong ball out of the bunker - but wasn't sure.

Now I am 99% certain his PP was wrong in his advice - but of course there might be a new ruling that I am not aware of and his PP was correct. But assuming he was wrong - what was it that his PP was confused over that caused him to give this advice?

 

[Maninblack4612]

That was actually the rule until 2008 - not allowed to lift to identify, no penalty for playing the wrong ball. The 7 handicapper has obviously missed the rule change.

http://lindamillergolf.blogspot.co.uk/2008/02/2008-rules-changes.html

 

[Colin L]

Rule 12-1a refers.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-12

 

[rulefan]

A few years ago there was no penalty for playing a wrong ball from a bunker but the rule was changed in 2012 to give the player the opportunity to identify his ball.

The current rule (Rule 12) is best read in full.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-12

 

[rulefan]

Merry Xmas Colin

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Now I never knew - then again I can't recall ever not being able to identify my ball in a bunker - so never had to address it the issue.

However, the rule says that the player can clear sand and actually move the ball (though not lift it?) to determine if it is his ball or not. My mate was under the clear impression that if he could not identify his ball without touching it then he had to play it - and after playing out then determine whether it was his own ball or not.

 

[duncan mackie]

Merry Xmas Colin

Merry Christmas to both of you 😎

 

[rulefan]

And to you also.

 

[pogle]

Now I never knew - then again I can't recall ever not being able to identify my ball in a bunker - so never had to address it the issue.

However, the rule says that the player can clear sand and actually move the ball (though not lift it?) to determine if it is his ball or not. My mate was under the clear impression that if he could not identify his ball without touching it then he had to play it - and after playing out then determine whether it was his own ball or not.

12-1a says that if you accidentally move a ball covered by sand during a search then there's no penalty and the ball must be replaced and the lie recreated etc. 12-2, which states that you may lift the ball to identify it, still applies when the ball lies in a bunker, subject to the usual caveats (i.e. tell your marker, mark it, no cleaning more than necessary, must replace and recreate the lie).

 

[rulefan]

12-1a says that if you accidentally move a ball covered by sand during a search then there's no penalty and the ball must be replaced and the lie recreated etc. 12-2, which states that you may lift the ball to identify it, still applies when the ball lies in a bunker, subject to the usual caveats (i.e. tell your marker, mark it, no cleaning more than necessary, must replace and recreate the lie).

I think the problem was resolved some hours ago

 

[pogle]

I think the problem was resolved some hours ago

Since SwingsItLikeHogans' post (which I quoted) contained a question I assumed it still wasn't clear. My apologies if my assumption was incorrect.

 

[rulefan]

Since SwingsItLikeHogans' post (which I quoted) contained a question I assumed it still wasn't clear. My apologies if my assumption was incorrect.

I thought it was just further explanation of his mate's original misunderstanding

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So - my ball is in a bunker and I can't see that it is mine. I can clear any sand away from on top if that helps. I can gently move it round in it's position but try not to change it's lie. And as a last resort I can actually pick the ball up and if I identify it as mine I replace it in the bunker and with support and guidance from a PP I recreate the original lie.

My mates PP was totally wrong.

Which I rather suspected. My post was actually why his PP felt that he couldn't do this and would have to play it and then identify it. Something about the rules had seriously confused an experienced 7 handicapper.

 

[rulefan]

Something about the rules had seriously confused an experienced 7 handicapper.

As I said, the Rule only changed in 2012.

Previously, you couldn't search as now. You simply hit the ball. If it wasn't yours there was no penalty.

 

[Colin L]

So - my ball is in a bunker and I can't see that it is mine. I can clear any sand away from on top if that helps. I can gently move it round in it's position but try not to change it's lie. And as a last resort I can actually pick the ball up and if I identify it as mine I replace it in the bunker and with support and guidance from a PP I recreate the original lie.

My mates PP was totally wrong.

Which I rather suspected. My post was actually why his PP felt that he couldn't do this and would have to play it and then identify it. Something about the rules had seriously confused an experienced 7 handicapper.

Just to take you a little further. In searching, you have to shift sand around if your ball is completely buried which is ok. You could use the the bunker rake for example. When you find your ball, you have to recreate the lie - i.e. bury it, but you can leave a little bit on top clear of sand so that you can see it. Obviously it makes sense to be gentle if you can see it but have to move it round to identify it as it makes it easier to re-create the lie, but there is no limitation as to how you go about searching or identifying. Anyone left a JCB handy?

 

[clubchamp98]

So - my ball is in a bunker and I can't see that it is mine. I can clear any sand away from on top if that helps. I can gently move it round in it's position but try not to change it's lie. And as a last resort I can actually pick the ball up and if I identify it as mine I replace it in the bunker and with support and guidance from a PP I recreate the original lie.

My mates PP was totally wrong.

Which I rather suspected. My post was actually why his PP felt that he couldn't do this and would have to play it and then identify it. Something about the rules had seriously confused an experienced 7 handicapper.

Just because he is off seven doesn't mean he knows the rules.,
i have met loads who quote the rules with some authority and are just talking BS.

 

[Colin L]

Just because he is off seven doesn't mean he knows the rules.,
i have met loads who quote the rules with some authority and are just talking BS.

Sadly, the converse is true for me: knowing the rules does not seem to lead to playing the game any better.

 

[Marc Cools]

So - my ball is in a bunker and ...

Note that Rule 12-1a say's "If the player's ball lying anywhere on the course is believed to be covered by sand, to ..."

The ball may also be covered by sand outside a bunker, like a wasteland and so on.